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03-27-2013, 09:12 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SC
Posts: 156
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I like vertical screens -
I personally like the vertical screen format (Garmin). That being said, if you need more screen to look at, put in more screens! Actually, I find the big format screens by the other vendors to be somewhat difficult to place in the panel, and then as has been said before, these big displays are then split to show multiple screens anyway... So with the vertical format, one can put in multiple screens with different views/maps/engine info./etc. and if one fails there are others to take over. Not to mention that if Garmin decides to come out with an upgraded display (like a touchscreen), then they should be easily exchangeable in the panel. Just my opinion. 
__________________
Melinda Harrill
Flying my RV-7!
Barrett Precision Engine - Superior IO-360 with AFP FI
Garmin Panel - All touchscreens
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03-27-2013, 09:18 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Southlake, Texas
Posts: 626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder
I expect to be in the market for a full boat avionics upgrade within a month or two, so this news is timely. The new pricing brings everything right into line with my initial system of choice ("brand D"). So I'm in the initial stages of the line for line comparison, but one thing sticks out as an apparent glaring shortcoming in the Garmin system - screen real estate. Comparing the dual widescreens from the competition (a 10 and 7 inch), the Garmin seems to be stuck in the past.
With the obvious fixation pilots have on "size"... What is driving the mad rush away from brand D?
Or put another way, can you help out a lazy consumer and tell me what I'm missing?
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Toolbuilder,
Garmin is not stuck at all. They are marching forward and will probably smother their competition. Size is not what's important, it's presentation. Flying steam gauges in the Northrop T-38 I learned to appreciate the NASA researched presentation of the classic T with the attitude indicator elevated to make it the center of the pilots scan. Later, I copied that in the Doll's old panel.
When upgrading a couple of years ago, I chose Garmin, even though more costly than Brand D at the time, because of presentation. Heavy metal drivers will feel right at home with Garmin's vertical PFD as that is how most airliner panels are displayed.
The RV-8 panel is the perfect size for a two screen Garmin set up with the center panel elevated to place the attitude indicator as the center of the pilots scan and with the MFD lower on the right balancing the radio stack on the left. This leaves just the right amount of room for the stand-by instruments below the PFD.
This is an early picture made during the upgrade. Note clecos holding the panel in. I think I will replace the AICD AM/FM/CD player with a new GMC 305. The AICD is not needed anymore with the XM music in the MFD.
http://tinypic.com/r/2yk1aoh/6
__________________
Danny King
Beautiful Doll 80434 TT 1675 hours
I0360 A1B6 200 HP
Christen Inverted Oil
First Flight 12 July 2000
VAF Dues current for 2020
Last edited by Danny King : 03-27-2013 at 09:33 AM.
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03-27-2013, 09:18 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Brookshire, TX
Posts: 1,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel
The problem with tandems is can you fit two large displays in the panel with all the other stuff you need/want?
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This is my concern. Based on the little research I've done, there's definitely no way I'm getting two 10" Dynon screens into an -8 panel. I think I concluded that two 7" displays stacked vertically would fit, but be tight, though I don't really remember. (keep in mind that I was looking at this stuff before I even got the tail kit!)
The 7" Skyview display appears to be basically identical to the G3x display; both are 7" diagonal, both are 800x480. The only difference is orientation...and I think that I can make a much better panel layout with two portrait displays than two landscapes. Hence why I'm pretty stoked about the new G3X stuff. (even though I'm a ways out from panel building)
So it's kind of a personal preference thing for me, in that it comes down to intangible stuff like "looks better" or "better layout."
__________________
Philip
-8 fuselage in progress (remember when I thought the wing kit had a lot of parts? HAHAHAHAHA)
http://rv.squawk1200.net
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03-27-2013, 10:49 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dallas
Posts: 196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert
Garmin Integrated Autopilot Option for G3X

The GSA 28 autopilot servo...
Each servo also provides a built-in interface to drive a customer-supplied trim servo at no additional charge. When the autopilot is off, the servo provides speed scheduling for the manual trim commands. When the autopilot is on, the servo automatically trims the aircraft to constantly keep it in trim.
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Will the GSA 28 servos be compatible with the trim features used in the VP-X? My concern is the two units have similar functions, and the trim servo will "auctioneer" signals from both the servos and VP-X. Which device would win?
Thanks
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RV-9A finshed! For sale
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03-27-2013, 10:56 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
Posts: 7,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NTex
Will the GSA 28 servos be compatible with the trim features used in the VP-X? My concern is the two units have similar functions, and the trim servo will "auctioneer" signals from both the servos and VP-X. Which device would win?
Thanks
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See the following post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert
Several posts were questioning how a VP-X or other device might work in combination with the speed scheduling and auto-trim functions provided by the Garmin GSA 28 servos.
We understand that you may disable speed scheduling on the VP-X and then the outputs going to the trim motor will just be ground and +12Vdc.
These signals will then work great as manual trim control inputs to the GSA 28.
So, to summarize,
1. Disable speed scheduling (set trim motor %Power to 0 on VP-X)
2. Move trim motor drive wires to servo inputs
3. Connect servo outputs to trim motor
Thanks,
Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCA
Based on information from our friends at Garmin, we see no issue with integrating the GSA 28 servos with the VP-X as-is today.
The GSA 28 receives trim motor power inputs (2 wires, GND and +12v) and outputs the same to the trim motor. Electrically, the power coming into the GSA 28 on these wires is identical whether it comes from a switch, relay, or VP-X so nothing special should need to be done other than turning off the speed scheduling on the VP-X.
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Last edited by Brantel : 03-27-2013 at 08:44 PM.
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03-27-2013, 11:03 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dallas
Posts: 196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel
This one gets pretty deep into the details of how the GSA28 and the VP-X control the trim servo and how the position feedback is handled and configured. Like you, when I dig into this, I see some issues but I can think of a few ideas on how they could co-esist but only if Garmin would support such a configuration. It goes deeper than just the physical wiring in this case....
Matt or Steve will most likely come along and give us the official word on it however. I would be almost certain that they have discussed this one internally.
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Looks like the VP-X supports an TruTrack auto-trim function, although it's a slightly different configuration: VP-X contols pitch trim when AP is off, TT auto trim controls pitch trim when AP is ON.
Maybe the solution is a software update to the VP-X, but I'll let the vendors chime in with the official answer... either way I'm definitely looking forward to these new G3X features.
__________________
RV-9A finshed! For sale
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03-27-2013, 11:12 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny King
Toolbuilder,
Garmin is not stuck at all. They are marching forward and will probably smother their competition. Size is not what's important, it's presentation...
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So using that logic, the massive G5000 screen is a step backwards? Look, Garmin is a solid supplier, but let's not forget that they are sticking with the 3X screen size because it will fit in a wide range of aircraft (larger customer base), but also because they are heavily leveraging the chassis and other hardware development costs from their portable line. Its one thing to compare the display "quality" (sharpness, brightness, etc), but to say the tall, narrow screen is somehow "better" is stretching it a bit. If it was cheaper for them to build a 15 inch system, they'd have it, and many of you would be falling all over yourselves to get one.
But the bottom line here is that this is a "requirements" decision, not a "brand loyalty" decision. I have done the preliminary layout, and I can get a 10 inch AND a 7 inch SV screen in a Rocket, along with a GTN 650 and the required switches, etc. So any avionics system will have to "buy" its way to my panel based on technical merit. That's all I'm trying to figure out here.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
Last edited by Toobuilder : 03-27-2013 at 11:15 AM.
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03-27-2013, 12:00 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: N Island, New Zealand
Posts: 9
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Eyes side by side
The natural orientation of my eyes, is side by side. I'm used to seeing the horizon as an extended horizontal line.
So although many have trained to use an AH that is only a coupe of inches round, I would lie to see as long a horizon line as possible - which is why I would prefer a landscape screen - as wide as possible.
Perhaps what is needed is a screen twice as wide as a radio stack, & put the radios etc under the screen.
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03-27-2013, 12:05 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: up up and away
Posts: 312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwoodrv9
Matt and Brian,
Thanks for the info. I did have the A/P control listed and the 2 servos. I like what I read about the AP system.
I would also like to have 2 G3X screens, but may have to wait for a second one because of costs. I updated my list and I think I have included everything.
GDU 370 Display $4,375
A/P Servos (2) $1,598
GMC 305 A/P Control $750
AOA-Heated pitot $300
GMA 240 Audio Panel $845
GTR 225 COM Radio $1,800
GDL Uplink - Weather - Traffic $800
GTX 23 ES Mode S Transponder $2,200
G3X Sensor Kit, 4 Cylinder Lyc/Cont (K00-00512-00) $1,000
Optional Carb Temp sensor $75
Total - $13,750+-
Second GUD 370 and ADAHRS $3000+-
As for the ADS-B out, I imagine I would have updated my panel by then.
I look forward to seeing the units at SNF.
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I like seeing a price list like this for a 'typical' installation, keeps it in perspective. What about the [yearly] cost of maps and charts? How much is that?
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03-27-2013, 12:17 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
Posts: 7,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncol
The natural orientation of my eyes, is side by side. I'm used to seeing the horizon as an extended horizontal line.
So although many have trained to use an AH that is only a coupe of inches round, I would lie to see as long a horizon line as possible - which is why I would prefer a landscape screen - as wide as possible.
Perhaps what is needed is a screen twice as wide as a radio stack, & put the radios etc under the screen.
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Thats one of the real issues when one starts to compare a landscape style screen to multiple Portrait style ones.
In real use most people want to have stuff like EMS data, moving maps, approach plates, etc. pulled up on their larger screens at the same time. This effectively reduces that huge PFD display down to much smaller size. In reality not many folks fly around with those huge PFD displays running full screen.
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