One-Seat Two-Seater (Dark Topic)

[Skyhook]

The 'selling the plane liability' thread has me thinking exactly on those lines and I have thought of removing the back seat so every eager rider who happens along the flight line will be more easily refused. Not neighborly, I know, and it is not in keeping with one of our basic tenants (share, share, encourage!), but darn it, there is the possibility of some rider getting killed, hurt, scared into court, etc., etc., ad nauseum. I think anyone totally ignoring these truths is asking- no, begging, for trouble-- especially in an *experimental* aircraft. It is a sad time and one completely foreign to the one in which most of us grew up, but, friends, the voracious legal profession is licking its chops and the D/A juries are all too willing to reward a frightened/hurt person everything his/her little heart desires.
Maybe next to the 'Experimental' sign we all should include 'No Riders'??

((Sigh..)

[Tom Maxwell]

I don't mean to play down the issue but I think your response is a little over the top. There are a lot of great people out there in this world, many of them young eagles, who would love to have a ride in a fast airplane. I am one of them by the way. I think it is worth the risk, and if I ever get a plane I will share it with anyone willing and able and brave enough to climb on board with me.

How many rides per year do Van's employees give? Where would they be if they didn't take the risk? My recommendation is to draw up a release document just like Van's uses and go for it. The glass is half full and life is too short to live in fear all of the time.

Of course if we are really that concerned about being sued, we should sell our cars and our homes and move to a cave in Montana. If someone is really that intent on sueing us, they will find a way to do it. Life is not without risks. Try to reduce them as much as is reasonably possible and don't worry about the rest. Smile and be happy

Besides, even if you have two seats in your plane, you can still say NO.

Tom
N512TC

[jonbakerok]

So now we're going to let the lawyers scare us out of giving rides?

My dad risked his life in WW2 so I could live in a free country. The only risk I face in living in it is a lawsuit. Doesn't seem like much in comparison. After what our parents went through to secure our freedom, I think we owe it to them not to hand it over so easily.

[Baja_Traveler]

If someone is that concerned about being eaten by the lawer sharks, a simple signature on a release is all thats needed. And moving into a cave in Montana will probably get you sued by the Sierra Club for disturbing the bats!

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by Skyhook

'Experimental' sign we all should include 'No Riders'?? ((Sigh..)

Yes we all can be sued for giving rides or anything for that matter, AND you are completely right not to give rides if you feel you are putting your self at risk, legally. However you have legal risks driving people in your car or flying someone in a Cessna. Again it is your choice not to give rides. The fact is if someone is killed in your plane, the survivors will sue you, not the passenger, even if the passenger knew and accepted the risk.

?Bolierplate? exemptions. From a www site link below:

Don't Expect (cookie cutter) "Boilerplate" Disclaimers to (always) Work

It is important to understand that if anyone hopes to successfully use an exculpatory agreement to cut off a serious injury or death claim, it must be carefully drafted by an attorney knowledgeable in this area and should be customized for the particular operation involved. Thus, "cookie cutter" form agreements that one pilot has copied from another pilot, who got it from a friend, after it was prepared by a lawyer for a different circumstance, are not likely to be honored by the courts. Anyone who uses "personal injury and death disclaimer" should anticipate that a plaintiff's attorney will scrutinize the document and the circumstances in which it was used to argue that the victim didn't understand what he was giving up. Trial courts and appellate courts will scrutinize the "disclaimer" before enforcing such agreements because it may mean dismissing somebody's million-dollar wrongful-death suit.

There is no guarantee that an exculpatory agreement would be upheld by any particular court; however, there is in incidental benefit to using such exculpatory agreements between sellers and buyers and between pilot owners and passengers. An attorney who takes on the case of a victim against a homebuilder or a pilot must seriously consider the risk that the exculpatory agreement will be enforced by the court and that the case will be thrown out. Thus, a lack of substantial assets coupled with the existence of a well-written exculpatory agreement may mean the difference between a lawsuit and no lawsuit. Even if the lawsuit is filed, the case may be settled on much more negotiable terms if the defense lawyer has the ability to assert the exculpatory agreement against the plaintiff's claims.

I believe that exculpatory agreements are an ideal tool for the sellers of homebuilt aircraft to use with buyers and for the operators of homebuilt aircraft to use with passengers. Why shouldn't people be able to give up their right to sue if they knowingly and voluntarily assume a recreational risk?



I go by the fact I have a well built and maintained aircraft, I am a qualified, competent and current pilot, who will operate in a safe and prudent manner. If something happens it happens, it will not be for reckless, negligence or careless operations. I take my chances everytime I fly and will continue to do so as long as I can do it safely. I will also gladly share the joy or flight for those who ask and YES, I know I am taking my chance of getting sued. However I will look into getting an exculpatory agreement, why not. I don't give rides to everyone and pilots have to very careful allowing another pilot to fly their plane. Many a RV's have come to grief when the "guest pilot" had their hand on the wing removal stick or did a Split-S at high speeds.

PS: Here is a good aviaton legal site:
http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html

Cheers George

[Skyhook]

Thanks, George and all for the comments. They were appreciated. Maybe the way I am looking at all this is a bit 'over the top' and maybe I should let this all cool.. yeah, Im gonna chill.
The predisposing factors causing my reflecting on this topic have to do with unfortunate experiences I had faced in non-flying circumstances related to business.
Still... until someone spills hot coffee in her lap