THE EDITING OF POSTS

Tandem46 · #1 08-03-2006, 01:59 PM

I must preface by saying this is Doug's site and he can edit what ever he wants whenever he wants.

Having said that, I'm totally against the idea of editing other posts in general. Obviously you have to have standards and if this was my site I wouldn't allow vulger, pornography, or photos of a gruesome nature to be posted here. However, the photos of the TBM/RV accident that were edited out do not fit any of these categories. I saw those photos and they were very benign and taken at such a distance that you could not make out anything other than the fact that it indeed was an RV-6. How is that different from the newspaper articles that often get posted here concerning aircraft crashes. They usually have photos and we don't edit those out. Just last week we had links to articles of both the fatal F-86 crash(http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ght=f-86+crash) and the fatal Spectrum 33 crash with fairly detailed photos posted on this site. Both of these aircraft were demolished and their pilots killed, but those photos didn't bother anyone or cause anyone to feel they were disrespectful to the surviving families. How about posting N numbers of crashed aircraft where forum members can then look up the victims address via the FAA. Is this not disrespectful to the families of the victims? And then the second guessing that we all do as pilots immediately following an accident such as the Europa accident at Oshkkosh last week. What if we offended the son, brother or whomever of the deceased by speculating about his ability to fly or the reason for the crash so soon after his accident.

The bottom line is unless a post or photo crosses a set and very distinct line, I don't think we should be editing them. I can see absolutely no reason why those TBM/RV photos were edited out. May as well just edit out any reference to the accident altogether.

Respectfully,

David Johnson · #2 08-03-2006, 02:05 PM

Well said. There is no call for censorship. If you don't want to read the material, then don't read it. I'm old enough to make that decision all by my onesy.

lorne green · #3 08-03-2006, 02:21 PM

I agree 100% that this is doug's site and that this site is a credit to the RV
community. Editing for content is not a big deal to me "on this site". If I want
unabashed journalism I'll read avweb or others.

rv6ejguy · #4 08-03-2006, 02:54 PM

I think if you read the VAF rules and mission statement, you'll see this is already laid out. Doug can and will do as he sees fit to suit his vision. I support bringing accident reports to the members here so that something might be learned and retained to prevent one of us in the future from making the same mistake but the photos of fatal accidents... well those are something I wouldn't really want to see if they were my friends or family members.

Dayton Murdock · #5 08-03-2006, 02:59 PM

I agree that this is Doug?s site. If Doug believes a post is inappropriate for his site. Then he should exercise his authority to remove the offensive post from his forum.

David Johnson · #6 08-03-2006, 03:18 PM

I just went through this with another aviation forum. The censorship and control got so out of hand that most of the active membership left and started another forum where they could speak freely. Free speech isn't for the faint of heart or thin skinned, but it sure is liberating to be able to debate. It brings people together in profound ways. People I butted heads with there have become my best friends that I look forward to seeing. I camped with many of them at OSH, and it was the most memorable aviation event for me yet.

While I agree that posting accident pictures like that may be painful to some, they may never see them here. I would also argue that those who see them here will never forget them and will be safer with someone else's hard learned lesson burned into their memory. They can always choose not to view them.

Dave

LifeofReiley · #7 08-03-2006, 03:23 PM

The home page states the forum is unmoderated. That's False.

[ed. What I mean by 'unmoderated' here is that messages are not placed in a que that has to be approved before being sent out to the forum. dr]

The pictures Doug elected to remove are surely available somewhere on the internet as well as news websites and or newspapers.

The site also states kid friendly... well my kid reads the newspaper and other websites as well as myself. I don't know what he thinks he can hide? The pictures as I saw them were an accident scene, just as you would see in the newspaper. Nothing gross or out of line at all...

rv6ejguy · #8 08-03-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnson

While I agree that posting accident pictures like that may be painful to some, they may never see them here. I would also argue that those who see them here will never forget them and will be safer with someone else's hard learned lesson burned into their memory. They can always choose not to view them.

Dave

I can see this point of view as well. An image of tragedies like this are retained better by most people. If that image makes a pilot think in a similar, future situation to avoid an accident, it is probably worth it.

RVbySDI · #9 08-03-2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeofReiley

The home page states the forum is unmoderated. That's False.

I think what you are objecting to is the "censorship" of the pictures and not the moderation of the forum. Somewhere in our "we must have total freedom to do as we please" mentality we have this misconception that censorship is a bad thing. All of us censor our lives multiple times a day. If you have kids you censor what they see and hear daily. I think if we did more of it in a public forum such as this we would live in a much better world. Thanks again Doug, I do not need to rubber neck at the car accident on the side of the road.

DeltaRomeo · #10 08-03-2006, 04:04 PM

This would be a good opportunity to ask that all read 'the rules' for using the VAF Forums: http://www.vansairforce.net/rules.htm

Thanks for your input, Tobin (and others). I completely respect your position, but having said that...this is my site, my rules for use are in print for all to see http://www.vansairforce.net/rules.htm, and my personal vision of keeping it 'family friendly' includes not showing pictures of accident scenes where people died. There are several excellent forums and email lists on the web that market the no-restrictions angle as a selling point, however my business plan is one that shares the belief that there is a demand for one that doesn't 'let it all hang out there' so to speak.

My vision is one that targets the 85% hump in the bell curve - the majority of which would not like to see pictures of their deceased loved ones on the web for eternity (even from a distance). Regardless of the fact that those RV crash pictures were from a distance, they are of a scene where someone's life came to a violent, horrific end.

Thanks for bringing the F-86 crash picture to my attention. I removed it.

Anyone who hasn't read the rules for using this site, they can be found at http://www.vansairforce.net/rules.htm.

I'll ignore item #8 on the rules page for a moment (Posts criticizing moderating decisions or forum policies will be deleted), as I think people should see what I have to say on the subject. I don't want there to be any ambiguity on where I stand on this issue.

The rule 'if one of the moderators doesn't like it, it's toast' covers a lot of ground. Also, the line in the rules stating "What about items 6 through 11? This is the "gray zone" - the area where different people have different levels of tolerance" carries weight in this circumstance. Different people have different ideas of 'family friendly'. This is one of those gray areas. I judged the situation as I saw it and made the decision to yank those crash pictures. I would do it again - ESPECIALLY if it was someone I knew.

Please, if you haven't read the rules for using the VAF Forums...do. I address the 'free speech' issue also in there. Nutshell, this is NOT a place where you can say anything you want. Maybe that statement will drive some people away, but it's my believe that it will bring more in to participate in the long run. There is enough gore in the world - I'm choosing to not add to it.

Paul Rosales told me years ago that you could stand on a street corner handing out $100 bills and someone would eventually call you a jerk (or something like that) <g>.

The rules: http://www.vansairforce.net/rules.htm

Best,
Doug