RV-9: 3 pt or 2 pt landings?

[alpinelakespilot2000]

The RV-8 landing thread got me thinking...

I'm about out of Phase I now and am wondering if my experiences landing are at all consistent with others flying the RV-9 (not 9A). I find that touchdowns are much more consistently good doing wheel landings as opposed to 3-pt. I'm not sure if I'm just not quite yet landing slow enough, but I am much more likely to balloon and/or bounce when trying to land with the tail down. I kind of get the feeling that there's still too much angle of attack on the -9's wings, even in the 3-pt attitude. (Though, supposedly, that's why the RV-9's gear legs are longer than those of the -7.)

I know I need to be able to master both as much as possible, and as I approach the summer season where I plan to be on grass strips more, I'd like to be able to count on the 3-pointers more consistently, but which do you find works the best? And, at what point do grass strips require a 3-pt landing?

[pierre smith]

Originally Posted by alpinelakespilot2000

.......... And, at what point do grass strips require a 3-pt landing?

...If they're short...like 1500', then you'd have a hard time wheel landing and not scaring yourself when you run out of runway. Before you do that, practise three-pointers at your paved runway and have just enough speed left to arrest the sink and flare. Then brake fairly hard and measure the runway you used to land and stop.

Best,

[luddite42]

Originally Posted by alpinelakespilot2000

I'm about out of Phase I now and am wondering if my experiences landing are at all consistent with others flying the RV-9 (not 9A). I find that touchdowns are much more consistently good doing wheel landings as opposed to 3-pt. I'm not sure if I'm just not quite yet landing slow enough, but I am much more likely to balloon and/or bounce when trying to land with the tail down. I kind of get the feeling that there's still too much angle of attack on the -9's wings, even in the 3-pt attitude.

In my opinion, this is why many prefer to wheel land - they're simply easier to do - in that you don't have to be precise with your airspeed or attitude at touchdown...only descent rate. A good 3-pointer in a lightly-loaded airplane that does not sit on the ground at the stall attitude is more challenging because if you touch a little on the mains, the airplane wants to keep flying. And if you touch down with too much descent rate, that spring gear will bounce you and you'll keep flying. But if you touch down softly, perfectly 3-point, there's nothing that can disturb a perfect landing unless you hit a bump on the runway at high speed.

And if you're using less than full flaps trying to 3-point, you're making things even harder for yourself. I think 3-pointers are generally more challenging to do perfectly in any airplane, since your zero descent rate and perfect 3-point attitude must coincide right at the ground level. Wheel landing removes the need to time one of these factors perfectly. But I'm not generally a fan of wheel landings. If I wanted it easy, I'd fly a trike.

[JDRhodes]

Originally Posted by alpinelakespilot2000

I find that touchdowns are much more consistently good doing wheel landings as opposed to 3-pt.

Me too. RV-9 wheel lands so easy, I find myself becoming too lazy to do 3 pointers.

[rv7boy]

OK...the original poster started this thread asking about 3-point landings versus 2-point landings in an RV-9!

Without calling anyone out, this thread is very specific (it's in the RV-9/9A forum, folks!) and is already starting to drift. The poll is specifically about the RV-9, not other RV's or other brands.

I will offer what little I know. During the factory tour, I was told that the RV-9 tends to balloon during the landing flare for a 3-point landing if the airspeed is not controlled much more carefully than for the other RV taildraggers, due to the John Roncz airfoil of the RV-9. Therefore, for some pilots the RV-9 can be more of a challenge than the other RV taildraggers.

[bsacks05]

My -9 doesn't seem to care how I land but I wheel land 95% of the time because it is easier and the sight picture is better. On grass I try to 3 point. I guess you can say the three point attitude in a -9 is a little uncomfortable because of the high stance of the nose on the ground with the tail down. You need to hold the three point attitude until the plane is ready to drop onto all three wheels.

[alpinelakespilot2000]

Originally Posted by JDRhodes

Me too. RV-9 wheel lands so easy, I find myself becoming too lazy to do 3 pointers.

Thanks Jeff. Am I correct in remembering (from somewhere) that you regularly land on grass? At what point does one need to land 3-pt on grass--just when it is super soft or all the time?

Originally Posted by rv7boy

OK...the original poster started this thread asking about 3-point landings versus 2-point landings in an RV-9!

Yes, this is definitely just an RV-9 thread. For those who are not aware, and as I noted earlier, the RV-9, with it's significantly different wings and longer mains, presents issues that the other RV's may not.

[Greg Arehart]

Wheel landings seem much easier for me. That said, I will often wheel land with the tailwheel only barely off the ground (particularly on short/soft strips), so maybe that's really a 3-pointer?

Greg

[apkp777]

Hello Steve,

I still have to say that of the airplanes I have flown, mine own is the most challenging to land! For a while I did mostly wheel landings, but I find that when I travel with the plane (which I do quite a bit) I usually have bags in the back (flight case, crew bag) and with the aft CG I end up with a sort of tail-low wheel landing or just simply a 3 pointer. With the 3-pointer, I have found that if I nail 55kias on short final, it settles down nicely with very little bucking (yeah like a bronco sometimes). Once I touch down, pulling all the way back on the stick really "locks" the tailwheel down and generally pretty decent landings.

The difference in a wheel landing is really the approach speed. If I come in at 55 knots it's tough to keep the tail up, so I really need about 60 knots. Well if you look at a 1.3 vso approach speed rule, 53-54 is appropriate. At 60 (sometimes even faster) I float and float or some yes...bounce and bounce.

I suppose in the end, it's the nice thing about a tailwheel. You really have more options for landing and it can make it more interesting (or terrifying).

[alpinelakespilot2000]

Some good ideas. Thanks!