IFR GPS purchase - need vs wants

erikpmort · #1 01-27-2013, 02:58 PM

I have begun my ifr studies. My Rv has an old kx135a. It has a glideslope, but it is a non ifr GPS. So I'm starting to look for one so I can do GPS approaches etc.

I need some guidance as to what I need vs features that might be nice but are unecessary. I know my budget is never going to exceed 5k on this. Point of my instrument rating is to improve my skills and safety, not to fly ifr all the time. What models would you reccomend on my budget, and is my budget acceptable? Thanks

erikpmort · #2 01-27-2013, 03:33 PM

Thanks for your post. (below) Are the update costs pretty uniform throughout the garmin range or does it vary a lot per the GPS ?

BobTurner · #3 01-27-2013, 03:47 PM

I think you will have a hard time finding a WAAS unit within your budget.
Non WAAS means non precision approaches only, plus you must have a VOR and there are a few unimportant restrictions on alternates. Some used possibilities:
I see an ad in these forums for a non WAAS Garmin 400. This is a fine unit, GPS only (no com or VOR). Asking $3K. If you do not have a compatible EFIS you will need a CDI, $2K (!) new from Garmin. Entire US database is about $350 per year.
You can buy refurbished Garmin 300 units for about the same price. These are older boxes, but they do include a com as well as the GPS. You will need to build or buy an annunciator panel (switches and lights) and again you need a CDI.
The 480 is a WAAS box, don't know what they are going for, but I think I heard that it is getting hard to obtain repair services due to lack of parts. I see used 480's in the ads, they are out of your price range.

emuyshondt · #4 01-27-2013, 08:16 PM

Also keep in mind that by 2020 you will have to have ADS-B equipment, and that requires a WAAS GPS source. I'd be leery of getting anything non-WAAS at this point, even or VFR use.

Also, if you are not really going to be flying much IFR, you might consider a VFE GPS, such as an iPad, for situational awareness, and use the VOR system for getting around. You probably don't want to be shooting approaches to minimums if you are not flying IFR often. The VOR system will also be phased out, but by then the current crop of WAAS GPSs may be coming onto the market used, and you will also have a better idea of what your IFR and GPS needs really are.

erikpmort · #5 01-27-2013, 08:20 PM

Do I really need waas ? I'm not sure but I'm thinking a non precision approach minimum is still pretty low and most people don't have waas anyway. My buddy uses the kln90b all day long on the king air and he says its old but works just fine. I see em for 1500$ on eBay. So what am I missing out on besides waas if I get something older ?

erikpmort · #6 01-27-2013, 08:25 PM

I didn't realize it had to be waas in 2012. Yeah so if I upgraded it would be good for 7 years max.

emuyshondt · #7 01-27-2013, 08:28 PM

Newer units will have nicer displays, and are also likely to be supported longer. The older the unit, the more likely that at some point you might not be able to get database updates for it.

Also, the cost is not the GPS unit alone, but you also need an annunciator and a CDI that can cost as much as one of the older GPS units ($1,200+). I think you can't just put in say a GNS430 or KLN89B, you also need the aforementioned extra equipment.

BobTurner · #8 01-27-2013, 09:26 PM

My advice, as a cfii, would be to train for your instrument rating with your current ILS/VOR capability. You'll learn position awareness without the moving map crutch. When you're done you'll have a much better idea of what you need or want as far as gps.

Ron Lee · #9 01-27-2013, 09:34 PM

Before saying that VORs are going away, find the latest Federal Radionavigation Plan and see what the current plan is.

As far as WAAS positioning input into ADS-B Out equipment, ADS-B Out units in several years may have WAAS functionality incorporated into them. If that is correct, you need not buy a WAAS navigation system now.

RV6_flyer · #10 01-27-2013, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTurner

I think you will have a hard time finding a WAAS unit within your budget.
Non WAAS means non precision approaches only, plus you must have a VOR and there are a few unimportant restrictions on alternates. Some used possibilities:
I see an ad in these forums for a non WAAS Garmin 400. This is a fine unit, GPS only (no com or VOR). Asking $3K. If you do not have a compatible EFIS you will need a CDI, $2K (!) new from Garmin. Entire US database is about $350 per year.
You can buy refurbished Garmin 300 units for about the same price. These are older boxes, but they do include a com as well as the GPS. You will need to build or buy an annunciator panel (switches and lights) and again you need a CDI.
The 480 is a WAAS box, don't know what they are going for, but I think I heard that it is getting hard to obtain repair services due to lack of parts. I see used 480's in the ads, they are out of your price range.

Bob is correct on most of the non-precision approach certified GPSs will require the ACU (Annunciator Control Panel) and CDI to be IFR legal. Check the manufacturers installation and STC paperwork to see what is required. Some of the Garmin units with color displays do not require the ACU but still require a CDI or glass panel with CDI / HSI built in.

I have been using a 12-year old GX60. It has only been out for one software upgrade and one $500 repair in the past 12-years. MY IFR database subscription bill just showed up and is due in March. The database will cost $440 for one year of updates. Last time I checked Jeppesen, most of the database yearly subscriptions were $400 or more. Keep in mind that you do not have to have the latest database if the approach you are flying has not been changed since installation. (It is a pain to check the database to see if each approach matches the TPP. It is easier to just have a current database.)

Many of the WASS units available today are not ADS-B 2020 ready. Many will require at the minimum a Software Update that you may need to pay $1,000 to Garmin for the update. Unless you buy the latest GTN Garmin, expect an expense in the future to meet ADS-B requirements. It is possible that even the GTN my require a user paid for software update once the FAA figures out exactly what the final ADS-B requirements are.