VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > RV Firewall Forward Section > Propellers
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-12-2013, 02:32 PM
Joe Joe is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 396
Default I give up

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgreen View Post
I've come to the same point. With a 3 lever quadrant, I need too much friction to keep the prop lever steady. I also spend way too much time fine tuning the power. Time to change to vernier prop and mixture.
I too have been assimilated and am ready to become a vernier control user :-(

After flying Phase I with my "deluxe" throttle quadrant, I can honestly report that it sucks in spite of my best efforts with a "helper spring".



The helper spring pictured above was too strong and I have since cut it down to about half so it no longer rubs on the silicone M.P. line. It's still far from satisfactory and I'm ready to try a vernier on at least the prop control cable.

Can anyone who has successfully installed a vernier for the prop control on a small bracket below the instrument panel give me a pointer to a suitable cable length or better yet, a part number?

Thanks,
Joe
__________________

Joe Dubner
RV-8A
Independence, OR
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-13-2013, 04:34 AM
ronschreck's Avatar
ronschreck ronschreck is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post

Can anyone who has successfully installed a vernier for the prop control on a small bracket below the instrument panel give me a pointer to a suitable cable length or better yet, a part number?

Thanks,
Joe
Joe,

I used a 4-foot cable from Aircraft Spruce. This worked fine with the cable mounted on the gear tower as shown.

__________________
Ron Schreck
IAC National Judge
RV-8, "Miss Izzy", 2250 Hours - Sold
VAF 2021 Donor
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-13-2013, 09:22 AM
Toobuilder's Avatar
Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
Default

When converting the -8 over to the vernier controls I found that the ACS controls had far more travel available than the arms on the governor and mixture could use. Consequently, the knob moved only about halfway in its travel. The fix was to fabricate longer arms and now the knob strokes full travel and delivers a much finer adjustment.

Just something to keep an eye on.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-13-2013, 09:40 AM
Kahuna's Avatar
Kahuna Kahuna is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gold Hill, NC25
Posts: 2,400
Default

Joe, Dont give up! Let me see if I can get you some direct help from the Hartzell governor team. Ill get back to you on this.
__________________
Kahuna
6A, S8 ,
Gold Hill, NC25
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-13-2013, 09:48 AM
bird's Avatar
bird bird is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: lake charles, La.
Posts: 699
Default

Just a note about the quadrant itself. I noticed during my build that the friction knob was applying pressure to the side of quadrant, resulting in poor and uneven friction control. I placed an aluminum tubing spacer underneath the friction knob. This allowed the pressure to go through the side plate hole and directly to the control arm spacers. Look into this before going into major changes.

Bird
__________________
Bird
rv8 entire airframe at airport now, painting done, intersection and gear upper and lower fairings done, maybe order engine around first of year or before the next rate increase.
"to fly is a privilege that I am so thankful to God for"
http://www.mykitlog.com/tcb328/
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-13-2013, 11:57 AM
Joe Joe is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bird View Post
... I placed an aluminum tubing spacer underneath the friction knob. This allowed the pressure to go through the side plate hole and directly to the control arm spacers ...Bird
Good to know. But the friction knob already goes through the side plate hole and bears on the mechanism so I'm not following you. Maybe your quadrant is different. I checked your build log but nothing showed up. Can you post a picture of this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder View Post
... I found that the ACS controls had far more travel available than the arms on the governor and mixture could use. Consequently, the knob moved only about halfway in its travel. The fix was to fabricate longer arms and now the knob strokes full travel and delivers a much finer adjustment.
That's good to know too. I've already had to swap out the throttle lever arm; guess I should not have expected the prop and mixture controls to be different :-( If I went the vernier route, I'd probably go with one of Vans' cables (used on the side-by-side models) and I'd like to think it would be a good fit.

Meanwhile, Kahuna/Mike Stewart tells me via email that he'll ask Hartzell about the new spring they're working on so I'm not going to install a vernier just yet. He also says he has seen success using a cut-down standard spring although I'm going to wait to hear from Hartzell.

--
Joe
__________________

Joe Dubner
RV-8A
Independence, OR
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-16-2013, 07:39 AM
Joe Joe is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 396
Default Update on the prop governor spring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
... Kahuna/Mike Stewart tells me via email that he'll ask Hartzell about the new spring they're working on ...
Forum member Les Doud of Hartzell Propeller wrote me yesterday with an offer to participate in a service eval (along with Team Aerodynamix) of a new lighter prop governor spring they're working on. YES! That's the right solution and I'm grateful for the chance to participate as an early adopter.

I'll report back when I've received the spring and had time to install and fly with it.

Thank you, Hartzell and Kahuna.
__________________

Joe Dubner
RV-8A
Independence, OR
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-16-2013, 08:23 AM
Kahuna's Avatar
Kahuna Kahuna is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gold Hill, NC25
Posts: 2,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
Thank you, Hartzell and Kahuna.
You are welcome. We noticed this issue a few months back. The return spring on the gov was pretty strong. THere were design reasons for this. This would ONLY affect those with quadrants that run with little friction lock or no friction lock at all. A vernier would not even notice this. But for our team, that runs with no friction on the quadrants since we are constantly moving the throttle to do what we do, well this was immediately apparent. So Hartzell went off to engineer a lighter return spring.
While they were doing that, we cut our springs down to make them lighter. Works.
A great example of a supplier working with end users, listening, and updating their products to support us RV'ers. The thanks goes to Hartzell.
__________________
Kahuna
6A, S8 ,
Gold Hill, NC25
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-19-2017, 05:07 PM
Champ's Avatar
Champ Champ is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kingsville, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 282
Default

I'm reviving this thread to see if Hartzell ever came up with anything to help the high governor spring force when using a Vans deluxe quadrant. With first flights this weekend we found quadrant friction had to be very high to keep governor setting in place. I would prefer almost no friction so fine tuning throttle setting is easier. Not ready to convert to a vernier just yet or adding a "helper" spring. Anything new on this?

I'll post more info and hopefully video on first flights separately - the 8 is awesome!!
__________________
Dennis Enns
Kingsville, ON
Bellanca Champ 7ACA since 1986, restored 1990.
RV-8 IO375, Hartzell CS, dual PMags.
2020 Donation In
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-22-2017, 04:18 PM
Champ's Avatar
Champ Champ is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kingsville, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 282
Default

I spoke with Hartzell on this. They haven't come up with a lighter spring. They suggested a longer control arm but I don't see what difference this would make other than change the throw on the quadrant lever. They did say they are aware of the issue and would like to do something for the RV folk with quadrants. It would involve some modification to the governor and would I like to beta test it free of charge. I told them I was in Phase 1 and not up for it at the moment. If anyone is interested they could give Hartzell a call.

I also emailed Vans about this today so should hear if they have anything to add soon.

For now I have some interference on the rear throttle push rod and need to lube the quadrant pivot and boelube the slot where the quadrant levers go thru. This should make the throttle smoother and make it work better with the governor spring as it is.

Another thought is to take the governor spring off or unhook it and leave it up to the quadrant to have 100% control. I guess the only thing is if the cable ever breaks or disconnects the prop would either go fine or coarse pitch or stay where it was - I'm not sure. Any one tried this? Comments?
__________________
Dennis Enns
Kingsville, ON
Bellanca Champ 7ACA since 1986, restored 1990.
RV-8 IO375, Hartzell CS, dual PMags.
2020 Donation In
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:29 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.