RV-8 on snow covered runway

[gear1]

Hello, and Merry Christmas from Pagosa Springs CO. We have had much snow over the past week,which has been cleared by the airport staff. However after last night's snow, there remains about 1" of fluffy and the sun is coming out. Gotta fly! I have flown off and onto many snow covered runways in jet and turboprop a/c, but never in an RV8 (taildragger). If anyone out there has experience flying off a snow covered runway in a -8, could you please give me a heads up? My primary area of concern is the lack of tailwheel steering authority once the tail is down. Braking for directional control will also be greatly diminished.

Thank you all for your thoughts!

[bruceg]

Alf Olav Frog, a Norwegian RV-7 pilot posted some great tips and pictures in the following thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=82318

From his post:

"Here's what I have found useful for landing on ice and snow, and it's the same thing with a TW as a NW:

1) The RWY must be long enough, considering the actual braking action (B/A). Normally I use 500 meters as minimum for the RV.

2) The runway surface must be hard. In other words it must be plowed.
I don't land places where there's "un-plowed snow" (probably wrong english word) on the RWY.

3) The crosswind and B/A must be within reasonable limits.
I use 10 kts as my max X-wind, and medium B/A as my minimum B/A.

4) If the temp is lower than approx -5*C, and there's hardpacked snow on the surface, the B/A is normally medium or better.
The lower temp, the better B/A. I avoid landing places where the temp is above -5*C (approx +23*F). That way I avoid slush and/or water.

5) If there's ONLY ice on the RWY surface, I normally avoid landing there.

6) I stay off the brakes if i can, thus they don't heat up and then they don't freeze up.

7) Normally is a good idea to operate on ice and snow without wheelpants.

8) Regarding technique: it's nothing to it as long as it's hardpacked snow and temp below -5*C and calm winds. It feels about as grass.
In fact; I prefer grass or snow with a TW instead of hard paved surface RWY.

9) The most important thing: CALL the local people plowing the RWY before you go to get current info about the RWY."

[rocketbob]

I'm getting a bit of a chuckle from all of the apparent requirements of winter landings.

The airplane doesn't care what surface you land on if you follow one rule and that is if the airplane is moving treat it as it is still flying.

As long as the snow is below the axle you're ok, and I leave the wheelpants on. I have a couple hundred landings in 4-5" of snow on our grass strip.

[gstone]

Way to go Bob!

[gear1]

Thanks, guys! This is exactly the info I was looking for!

Off to the airport!

Full report to follow.

[David Paule]

I've landed my Cessna 180 on glare ice, black ice if you're familiar with that term. There was very, very low tire friction. The wind was straight down the runway, no problem. The ice was consistent across the whole airport. Maybe 1/4 inch of what could have been polished ice.

But the longish taxiway was perpendicular to the wind. I had to crab the airplane into the wind and modulate power - carefully - to make progress. Fortunately it was wide and open, just extremely icy. Intentionally crabbing, with the tires sliding, was a new experience.

When I got to the fuel pumps, I let the airport operator fill the tanks. It was hard to walk on the ice.

Afterwards, and after ascertaining that I had about 700 feet to the fence and working through the runway requirements for the temperature, weight and elevation, I departed right from the pump, into the wind. Couldn't do a run-upon the ground, but as it was right after a flight with no issues, I accepted that, that one time.

Dave

[flyinga]

Hey Craig, why don't you come back to Texas where you don't normally have to worry about such foolishness?

[Ron Lee]

I checked our runway this afternoon and there were "drifts." I did not measure them but estimate 3"-6" high. Condition of the snow was unknown. Could have been fluffy or crusty hardpacked.

I considered it potentially hazardous so did not fly.

No NOTAMs on the marginal conditions either.

[riobison]

We end up with lots of ice on our runways here in Alberta Canada from the freezing and thawing. If you have any drift or cross wind at all when landing you could touch down and end up skidding to the side of the runway and into a snow bank. If you have a wide runway you have lots of room to get it sorted out but a narrow runway and as you know, things can happen real quick.

Tim

[gear1]

Jimmy A,

Man does not live by flying alone; the skiing has been great! C'mon up!

Regards,