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  #1  
Old 12-09-2012, 06:44 PM
rzbill's Avatar
rzbill rzbill is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,750
Default Over the bridges and through the woods

Yeah well, this is a trip to mom's ala Bill Rs trip that is also in this "trip write up" section of the forums.

At the end of the flight, I had mixed feelings.
On the good side, I enjoyed using my IFR ticket.
On the bad side, I am kicking myself for not reading the DUAT Notams close enough.

Started out well enough. There was fog at AVL which is common.



We took off and quickly got above it for a very pretty flight east. Ran LOP with a tailwind. The image is from the climbout.



We were talking to GSO Approach when they said, "Say, you DO know that IGX is closed right?". Well, my heart went into my throat for multiple reasons. First was recognition that I MISSED this Notam in the yard long list you get from DUAT. I'm pissed at myself for that. Second, I'm thinking "has the university finally closed this place for good?". GSO said no, it was for some maintenance that will last into Jan. OK, set up for the alternate RDU while I think..... Burlington is a lot less painful for me (and my mom). They have a BMW loaner I can use too. "GSO, can you set me up for Burlington?". They reply that Burlington is CLOSED TOO because of some weekend activity!.

Sheesh! I keep heading for RDU. But, I remember there is a private paved strip a few miles from my moms place. I decide to land there so I can make a cell phone call. The 430W does not have it in the database but the GRT does. 5NC5 "The Duchy"

We land. There is a gentleman working in his yard. We taxi up, introduce ourselves and explain our problem. This man (Chris Bouldin) explained he was an RV8 owner and he offered his auto to us for the few hrs we were in town. Wow. Very nice hospitality.

We got in touch with my mom (patiently waiting at IGX) and told her we would meet at her house.

Chris said there was an RV10 under construction on the field. We went and met the builder (also owns a 6) and talked shop for a few minutes.

Afterwards, we headed to my moms. Had a good visit with her and a few of the extended family that live on the family farm.

In the afternoon we headed back to 5NC5, filled up the car and saw Chris taxi out onto the runway when we pulled in. We took off and filed IFR again because of multilevel cloud layers that extended pretty low. We were inbetween layers or punching clouds all the way back. I did not have to shoot an approach into AVL (I was hoping to actually ).



Anyway, a good day. A lot of fun, met some very nice RV family and I learned a lesson without getting hurt.
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Bill Pendergrass
ME/AE '82
RV-7A: Flying since April 15, 2012. 850 hrs
YIO-360-M1B, mags, CS, GRT EX and WS H1s & A/P, Navworx
Unpainted, polished....kinda'... Eyeballin' vinyl really hard.
Yeah. The boss got a Silhouette Cameo 4 Xmas 2019.

Last edited by rzbill : 12-09-2012 at 06:54 PM. Reason: typo's
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2012, 06:55 PM
humptybump humptybump is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,181
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Glad you had a good trip. I agree that it would be wonderful if the NOTAMs were easier to parse. Didn't know about 5NC5. Nice to hear there is RV activity there!
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2012, 01:46 AM
PCHunt PCHunt is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humptybump View Post
Glad you had a good trip. I agree that it would be wonderful if the NOTAMs were easier to parse. Didn't know about 5NC5. Nice to hear there is RV activity there!
I particularly like the NOTAM presentation on WEATHERMEISTER. They are color-coded, and a Closed Airport will show up in RED letters.

IMHO, worth every penny!

Just a satisfied customer..........
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  #4  
Old 12-10-2012, 05:58 AM
terrykohler terrykohler is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,044
Default Don't Blame the NOTAMS

Bill:
I'm going to offer up some free advice, so you can treat it accordingly, if you wish. First, let me start by saying I've certainly made my share of flying mistakes-some of them real whoppers. Virtually all of them have involved "decision making". I'm going to critique yours -please don't take it as being mean-spirited, but rather as an attempt to protect you and your family.

First, I see a picture where weather is LOW IMC. If you've departed into anything close to this around Asheville, you've left yourself with absolutely no "out". No airports nearby with precision approaches, and climbing terrain in every direction. Worse yet, if you haven't bothered to read the NOTAMS and /or glossed over the fact that you destination and alternate are both closed, you'd likely skipped the section on Asheville. What if the ILS was out of service?

So you've left in IMC conditions, unaware of the conditions where you're heading. If you were headed anywhere North, NOTAMS more than a few hours old might be worthless-think snow covered runways (ask me how I know this one). If your destination and alternate were both IMC, what would you do after learning they were closed? What if ATC didn't alert you until you were handed to approach control? Would you have enough fuel for an approach somewhere else?
In short, you've made a number of decisions which could easily have been fatal, but you've managed to survive. Lots of learning opportunities here, and not just about reading NOTAMS.

You've followed Rule #1, which is Fly The Airplane. Now, you really need to focus on your decision making and Rule#2, which is Always Leave Yourself an Out.

Fly safe. The fewer post accident threads we see on this forum, the better for all of us.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2012, 06:47 AM
Wayne Gillispie Wayne Gillispie is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,499
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I was just assuming his first cool pic of the RV in the fog was right after pulling the plane out and not at takeoff. We fly vfr all the time and our pics sometimes look ifr, it depends on which way one points the camera. We always have a way out. I went into Foreflight and it does say "AD closed", but no special symbol or colors. We all make mistakes and learn from them and I made that same one in flight training. Most won't admit to it because of this. The same reason close calls/lessons learned section is so small. It should be the biggest section on any pilots forum but is usually the smallest. Thanks to ATC for helping us out again. Great post and pics by the way.
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  #6  
Old 12-10-2012, 07:32 AM
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rzbill rzbill is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Asheville, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrykohler View Post
Bill:
You've followed Rule #1, which is Fly The Airplane. Now, you really need to focus on your decision making and Rule#2, which is Always Leave Yourself an Out.

Fly safe. The fewer post accident threads we see on this forum, the better for all of us.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
Terry,
I take your comments as intended. Let me add a few clarifications.

By the time I was able to get out to the AVL runway and take off, the runway was clear and I would have been able to return VFR if desired but that was pure chance so not really relevant to the discussion.

Do not get the idea that I did not look at weather conditions in detail for the flight. I am obsessive in that regard. My filed alternate (RDU) was showing VFR all day and there were no instrument system problem Notams at AVL. The weather in general was supposed to clear off everywhere during the flight which they did. The only risk I intended to accept was a fog takeoff at AVL which I would have done if it was not clear at takeoff time. Unfortunately, this is a risk that is required here if one is to make use of the airport in the early AM. It is commonly done by private and commercial operations alike.

The inquiry about Burlington was because all was VFR and it is closer to my mom's house than the filed RDU alternate.

I had plenty of outs at the destination from a safety aspect. Indeed, I could have returned to AVL with well more than mandated IFR fuel reserve at AVL. None of these options were desireable from the mission standpoint because they were a long way from my moms house. You do make a valid point about no out while leaving AVL. I do not know how to eliminate this risk without an undesireable reduction in utility of the airport. The morning fog is the primary reason I got my IFR ticket a few years ago.

My takeaway will be HOW I go about reading the Notams. I obviously skimmed the later sections and did not pay close attention to the destination Notams.

Thanks for the comments.
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Bill Pendergrass
ME/AE '82
RV-7A: Flying since April 15, 2012. 850 hrs
YIO-360-M1B, mags, CS, GRT EX and WS H1s & A/P, Navworx
Unpainted, polished....kinda'... Eyeballin' vinyl really hard.
Yeah. The boss got a Silhouette Cameo 4 Xmas 2019.

Last edited by rzbill : 12-10-2012 at 04:51 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-10-2012, 11:13 AM
60av8tor 60av8tor is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Harrisburg, Pa
Posts: 759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rzbill View Post
I do not know how to eliminate this risk without an undesireable reduction in utility of the airport. The morning fog is the primary reason I got my IFR ticket a few years ago.
This is exactly what I was thinking as I read this exchange. I am sure you have a lot of company with this statement. I have done this before rather than waiting for the fog to burn off - beautiful everywhere else around me. Yes, it is a balance of risk. Now I'm not talking about a thick OVC layer, but rather light ground fog that is making a VFR departure at the time impossible. The few times I have done this, I could actually make out the airport environment through the layer while above it. In the event of an emergency - the reason I would be returning to a field that I had just departed - I could have made a VFR (though not legal per the ATIS vis) return.
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  #8  
Old 12-10-2012, 06:27 PM
wltrmtty wltrmtty is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kenosha, WI
Posts: 12
Default

All, as one trying to decide whether to get my IFR or not, this has been a great discussion. Thanks!!

Also, thanks for such a respectful and thoughtful exchange!
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