E-Subie H-4 coming back...

cjensen · #1 07-17-2006, 08:14 AM

Jan announced a little after 8 o'clock this morning on the E-Subie Yahoo site, that they are ordering 50 2.5L engines for a production run. First come, first serve.

N713R · #2 07-17-2006, 06:50 PM

Chad,

Does this mean it is back on your list again? Are they going to be the same as the old ones, or is he changing some things?? HP rating?? Come on man, I know you resaerched this already. See you Thursday.

cjensen · #3 07-17-2006, 08:54 PM

"Hmmm..." That was my reaction to it. The horsepower, from what I've read, will be the same, but more accessible through the new Gen 4 redrive. Back on my radar? Maybe the outer ring...

Not this engine though. See ya Thurs!

Yukon · #4 07-18-2006, 09:33 AM

Chad,

What exactly is "More Accessible" horsepower???? Is that horsepower that you paid for but didn't really get because of the induced drag of "smoke and mirrors"?

rv6ejguy · #5 07-18-2006, 09:48 AM

The latest spec EJ25 has a higher hp rating due to induction and cam timing updates. The different drive ratio permits higher rpm to be used to take advantage of this increased rating.

cjensen · #6 07-18-2006, 10:36 AM

Eggzactly what Ross said.

John,

Please keep in mind that this can and should be used as an information sharing forum from time to time. There is no need to post your sarcasm everytime someone posts something about alternative engines. Also, I have NO interest in this engine for my -7. I'm just passing along the fact that Jan is ordering engines if there are any potential customers out there that wanted an EJ25. This isn't meant to be any sort of stab at you, just that sometimes info can be past along without the expected response. You're question about more accessible horsepower is totally valid, and it was happily answered and addressed, but "smoke and mirrors"? Why throw that in? We all know you don't like Jan or his Subaru conversions for whatever reason, but some people do, and I thought this info was appropriate to pass on.

I like the options out there, and I still like Lycs and the clones. I may end up using one, but as long as I am building up to the point of needing to order an engine, I'll look around.

Yukon · #7 07-18-2006, 11:02 AM

Come on Chad, don't go and get sensitive on me! It's not my fault I have never heard the phrase "accessible horsepower" Did you just make that up?
I heard Ross's explaination, still wondering what YOU meant.

Take a good look at ALL the alternative ccompanies, and you will see varying
degrees of deception being practiced. Crossflow, NSI, Innodyne, Mistral and to a lesser degree EGG. All trying to pedal marginal concepts to unsuspecting customers looking for a free lunch.

Weeks after the crash, EGG's website still advertises the belt-drive gearbox, and offers no explaination of it's demise. Ten years in the business, and the gearbox is starting over, again, on a clean sheet of paper. And they still run hot, inspite of constant denials from all the believers.

Indignation on your part doesn't change the fact that alternative engines are
a HUGE compomise in RV aircraft. Wish you'd change your mind!

cjensen · #8 07-18-2006, 11:17 AM

Everything is a compromise John.

What I meant by "accessible horsepower" was just the fact that whatever style reduction drive comes out next, the ratio of 2.0? will be better suited to get to the higher horsepower range of that particular engine, and transmit it to the propeller.

I guess I did make that phrase up. Did I need approval before using it?

I have looked at all the alternative engine companies out there, and I DO agree with you that some of them (maybe all???

) have been deceptive. Am I a customer of any of them? Nope. I did have a deposit with Jan, but took it back because of lack of a direction with the redux drive.

I agree with you that Jan's website needs to be updated. They are busy, and websites get neglected sometimes. I am in charge of the website at work, and it doesn't get updated as often as it should at times, but it does get done. Just not priority. Jan is working on other developments at this time, and OSH is next week, so I wouldn't expect any updates on the site for a while. I hope he succeeds. There's no reason to hope he doesn't. Could be a great thing someday. Right now, the Lyc and clones are still king, as they should be. The alts aren't ready for prime time yet, but people are making strides.

If I had a decision in my mind to change, I would have something to think about changing. Nothing to change my mind about right now since I haven't bought an engine.

Why are you trying to change anyone's mind?

Yukon · #9 07-18-2006, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjensen

Everything is a compromise John.

What I meant by "accessible horsepower" was just the fact that whatever style reduction drive comes out next, the ratio of 2.0? will be better suited to get to the higher horsepower range of that particular engine, and transmit it to the propeller.

I guess I did make that phrase up. Did I need approval before using it?

I have looked at all the alternative engine companies out there, and I DO agree with you that some of them (maybe all???

) have been deceptive. Am I a customer of any of them? Nope. I did have a deposit with Jan, but took it back because of lack of a direction with the redux drive.

I agree with you that Jan's website needs to be updated. They are busy, and websites get neglected sometimes. I am in charge of the website at work, and it doesn't get updated as often as it should at times, but it does get done. Just not priority. Jan is working on other developments at this time, and OSH is next week, so I wouldn't expect any updates on the site for a while. I hope he succeeds. There's no reason to hope he doesn't. Could be a great thing someday. Right now, the Lyc and clones are still king, as they should be. The alts aren't ready for prime time yet, but people are making strides.

If I had a decision in my mind to change, I would have something to think about changing. Nothing to change my mind about right now since I haven't bought an engine.

Why are you trying to change anyone's mind?

Thanks for the explaination. Problem is, I don't think the latest 4 cylinder
Egg offering will be offering any more horsepower, inspite of it's lower gear ratio. It might have a chance though, of producing what it has advertised
from the start.

I guess I'm preaching to the choir. If you took back your deposit from EGG, we are on the same sheet of music. But let's get this straight, the belt drive gearbox didn't lack direction, it was an utter and complete failure. I knew from the first picture of that thing it was not going to work. Violates the KISS
principle so loudly I could hear it out here in Arizona. 12 bearings......that's just outragous.

Why do I want to change your mind?.......I don't. I want you, and others, to have enough pertinent information to make your own good decisions.

rv6ejguy · #10 07-18-2006, 11:43 AM

Deception from Mistral?? From Mickey's tour a ways back of their factory and many other things I have read over the last few years, they'd appear to be one of the straightest shooting companies on the horizon. Of course we need to see independent testing when these are available. Deception is a pretty strong word.

In this area, straight talk will go easier in the long run and leave you with happier customers. Those who have not learned that lesson yet, soon will.

Engines are about choices and preferences, just like many other things in life. Should everyone drive a Toyota because year after year, they have been shown to be one of the most reliable marques with good resale- why on earth would you want a Chev or Ford or Dodge then? Obviously many people prefer other brands just like with TVs, GPSs, blenders, aircraft etc. etc. The world would be a very boring place without choices.

To many, other things like refinement, ease of operation and economy are far more important than weight or even initial cost as for instances.

The people choosing to power their aircraft with Mistral or Egg engines are not fools. They are not stupid. They are not inexperienced. They include engineers, professional pilots and other saavy types along with low timers building their first airplanes. They are all big boys, capable of deciding how they will spend their money and probably not too interested in the strident roar from the other side of the fence spewing doom and gloom about their "crazy " choices. Ignoring the bouquets from Egg users like the 29,000 hour, 50 year veteran who has 7 times your flight experience and has flown BOTH cert engines and Egg ones is your perogative. Most are pretty enthusiastic about their engine choices, probably some are not. It's interesting that so much flak comes from those who have never flown behind an alternative engine.

If you don't like them, fine that is your choice, nobody has a gun to your head to buy one and we all thank you for looking out for our interests. As I've said before, if you like your Lyco, please, by all means, enjoy flying it.