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10-01-2014, 11:48 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,412
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Dan H chided me for wishing this power gain in a previous thread.
He suggested the inside of a Lycoming engine wouldn't support the kind of internal airflow required.
So I got out my trusty educational core engine case. The front 2 cylinders live in a closed crankcase chamber, with a 2" per side triangular hole under the main bearing. all the oil drain back to the sump, plus all the crankcase blow-by must pass thru this hole.
Bear in mind the front 2 cylinder's pistons go out and in together, opposite of the rear pair.
So the front & back crankcase chambers are pressurized and de-pressurized opposite of each other during each crank rotation.
Flow must fluctuate thru that little hole, with a constant average flow going aft with the oil drain back to the pan + the blow by flow thru the rear chamber toward the crankcase vent.
My point is that you can't get fluctuation free 'Low Crankcase Pressure' like an auto engine with a common crankcase.
Crankcase compression is going to happen with this old fashioned design engine, the higher the RPM, the less effective pressure averaging can occur between chambers.
I believe Dan's conclusion, and now mine, is: Large power gains from V8 auto engine tests won't be attained.
__________________
Scott Emery
http://gallery.eaa326.org/v/members/semery/
EAA 668340, chapter 326 & IAC chapter 67
RV-8 N89SE first flight 12/26/2013
Yak55M, and the wife has an RV-4
There is nothing-absolute nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing around with Aeroplanes
(with apologies to Ratty)
2019
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10-01-2014, 01:39 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Redlands, Ca.
Posts: 1,458
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Many or all race-teams disagree
... It isn't a question of airflow! It is a reduction of pressure and rareification of the trapped air in the crankcase.Ie;
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http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories...up-horsepower/
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http://www.butlerperformance.com/ima...mpKit/evac.pdf
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http://nutterracingengines.com/racin...uum_facts.html
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http://www.gzmotorsports.com/vacuum-pump-guide.html
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http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/vacuum-pumps.html
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http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...uum_pump_test/
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http://www.429-460.com/t13910-moroso...g-check-it-out
...A simple search rendered this; About 443,000 results
I find it hilarious and difficult to believe that the finest minds, associated with the biggest, most well equipped, best financed race-teams in all types of racing, are misinformed and a couple of people on this forum know all the answers. I have seen the results in our dyno-cells myself so I know for a fact this works. Thanks, Allan... 
__________________
Allan Nimmo
AntiSplatAero.com
Innovative Aircraft Safety
Products, Tools & ServicesInfo@AntiSplatAero.com Southern California (KREI)
RV-9A / Edge-540 
(909) 824-1020
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10-01-2014, 03:40 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfTech
... It isn't a question of airflow! It is a reduction of pressure and rareification of the trapped air in the crankcase.Ie;
...A simple search rendered this; About 443,000 results
I find it hilarious and difficult to believe that the finest minds, associated with the biggest, most well equipped, best financed race-teams in all types of racing, are misinformed and a couple of people on this forum know all the answers. I have seen the results in our dyno-cells myself so I know for a fact this works. Thanks, Allan... 
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I searched for "Stop Sign" and got 30,400,000 results.
Alan, share the data, maybe HP vs crankcase depression (vacuum) at a stabilized continuous power delivery condition. This would be like what we use at cruise or racing, and useful.
There is nothing wrong with saying it only gives us a clean engine and underside. That is valuable enough. Be Happy.
Anyway, the "piston pressure" is just bunk. The lower windage (flailing crank throws and connecting rods) with low density crankcase is very real. It should be known that this is but one of many sources of friction, and not very significant. Kinda like aerodynamic covers for fuel vents. Real, and small - - real small. I like them, they look cool.
__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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10-01-2014, 04:27 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Redlands, Ca.
Posts: 1,458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL
I searched for "Stop Sign" and got 30,400,000 results.
Alan, share the data, maybe HP vs crankcase depression (vacuum) at a stabilized continuous power delivery condition. This would be like what we use at cruise or racing, and useful.
There is nothing wrong with saying it only gives us a clean engine and underside. That is valuable enough. Be Happy.
Anyway, the "piston pressure" is just bunk. The lower windage (flailing crank throws and connecting rods) with low density crankcase is very real. It should be known that this is but one of many sources of friction, and not very significant. Kinda like aerodynamic covers for fuel vents. Real, and small - - real small. I like them, they look cool.
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.... The links I posted were so anyone interested could research for themselves. It somehow seems a fruitless effort for me to post some of these things as they always fall under much scrutiny, as if I were trying to mislead or misrepresent for personal gain. I guess this is just the nature of this type of venue. The list of documented results, and the corresponding reasons for the gains are all available and are virtually endless. Some of the important ones as applied to our application are laid out and discussed extensively on these links I posted. Windage, reducing piston ring flutter, better piston ring sealing from increasing top to bottom differential pressures, Stopping oil consumption via end gaps on rings, stopping oil coking in exhaust guides due to migration with no valve seals, cutting oil contamination of fuel via intake valve guides, boiling off moisture in oil at a lower temperature, dramatically reducing oil vapors and stopping them from being lost overboard and deposited on the bottom of your aircraft, just to mention a few. These things are far from "bunk" and are well documented if one takes the time to look. Thanks, Allan 
__________________
Allan Nimmo
AntiSplatAero.com
Innovative Aircraft Safety
Products, Tools & ServicesInfo@AntiSplatAero.com Southern California (KREI)
RV-9A / Edge-540 
(909) 824-1020
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10-01-2014, 05:47 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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10-01-2014, 06:03 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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More than 2 months and 359 posts to yield this:
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...&postcount=353
This issue is more complex. It will take years of therapy to resolve. Years.
__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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10-06-2014, 12:27 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kenosha WI
Posts: 50
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Replace Saddle Mount tube
Hi Allan,
Please also send me a replacement saddle mount with the inner-tube as well.
Thanks,
Jeff Barnes
9820 52nd St
Kenosha WI 53144
847-331-2567
__________________
Jeff Barnes, Race 411 RV-Gold
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10-14-2014, 06:56 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 125
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ASA Air/Oil Separator with new Saddle Mount
Between the two of us pilots we have over 100 years of aviation maintenance experience. One of us is an A&P the other an IA.
After exploring this thread from the first post to the last and reading ALL the information that Allan at ASA provided on this thread; we installed the ASA Air/Oil Separator and Saddle Mount with Air valve on our RV6, 160 HP Lycoming & constant speed prop.
This engine had had a history of creating "the greasy belly syndrome"...!!!
It would use about a quart of oil every 8 hours of flight; usually running it at 6 quarts for local flights and 7 quarts on cross country.
We have installed the ASA Air/Oil Separator and ASA's new Saddle Mount Air valve. The Air valve is mounted on the Right Exhaust Stack 12" from the tip outlet.
We also installed a second check valve (NAPA P/N: 2-29000) in the hose between the Separator and the Saddle Mount Valve; to preclude any issues with the exhaust saddle mount orifice getting plugged up with carbon..
We have added into our maintenance checklist; to remove the saddle mount at every oil/filter change to inspect/clean any carbon accumulation and test the check valves for proper operation.
The bottom line is that after 10 flight hours, two of which were 3 hours in duration and 10,000 AGL. THE OIL CONSUMPTION IS ALMOST ZERO AND THE BELLY IS CLEAN.
I can send pictures of the installation to anyone who wants them.
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10-14-2014, 09:14 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,125
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"But Joe (or Dan or Bill or Scott or Allan  ), I want it all to be true?clean belly and more power?I tell ya...is that too much to ask?"
So this "Bill Gannon" rearranged the plumbing, and now the relief (backup) valve comes off the side of the tee, as Dan suggested (good call). Continued investigation of the oil drips located a seep from within the oil cooler. New oil cooler aboard, test flight good, and off to the Watsonville Airshow. 7 flights (6.6 hrs) later, and peering up in the cowl exit shows no oil, with a cleaner belly than after recent hops (some smoke oil residue, of course). Had the oil up to 9, and did use some, which has been true above 7-8 (of 12). Will see how this continues before the next oil change, and will see how the CVV tube looks at that time.
HP claims are enticing, and the idea of less belly shmear, with a tad of HP is something I didn't want to leave on the table?just in case?ya know, with those Wascally Wockets to chase around!
Cheers,
Bob
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