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  #11  
Old 11-10-2012, 11:51 AM
riobison riobison is offline
 
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Location: Oliver BC & Red Deer Alberta Canada
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Fill to 7 and top at 6. On my 177A O 360 Cardinal, it was always all over the belly. I installed a Walker air oil separator & it helped immensely but not a total cure all. With the chrome top on this engine, I average 6 to 7 hrs a qt and my comp was all in the high 70's.

My RV4 with an O 360 A1A fill to 7 and top at 6. And I'm getting 25 hrs to a qt. This has an air oil separator as well and only minimal oil on the belly. Comp in the Low to mid 70's.

There is a huge variance on each engine. Anything with a chrome top (cylinders) seems to always use or lose more oil.

Tim
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2012, 11:58 AM
jchang10 jchang10 is offline
 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
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After dealing with the same issues, about 40 hours ago, i installed Antisplataero's air oil separator. I don't know why they aren't standard equipment. I now fill up to 10 qts and probably won't need to add any new oil for 50 hours. No more belly oil back to the tail. There is only oil back about 2 feet from the cowl.

At Oshkosh, I asked aerosport, Lycoming, etc. about this issue. Lycoming could only give me the book response, fill it to 10 qts. This obviously wasn't practical for me before the air oil separator.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2012, 03:39 PM
douglassmt douglassmt is offline
 
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Location: Missoula, MT
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Bill - I had the same question by the time I was at OSH this year. I stopped by the Aerosport tent and asked them where to run my oil. They said between 7 and 9 quarts, any more will blow out. Since I've started keeping it between 7-9 (actually 7-8), my oil "consumption" has gone down. Previous I was trying to keep it at or above 9.

One other note, which was pointed out to me by the GREAT Mike Seager: read your manual and you'll see that the "minimum safe oil level" for the IO-540 is something like 2.75 quarts IIRC.
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Last edited by douglassmt : 11-10-2012 at 03:44 PM.
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2012, 03:43 PM
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Bill.Peyton Bill.Peyton is offline
 
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Thanks for all the feedback. Here is what I plan to do. I have the Antisplat
Air Oil sep. I am not going to install it till I try to ascertain the oil consumption over the next 25 hours with 9qts and 8 qts. I know what it is with 10. After which I may install the AI Sep to keep the belly clean.

Bryan, what type of consumption do you see?

Jchang, did you also install the valve on the exhaust?
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Last edited by Bill.Peyton : 11-10-2012 at 04:00 PM.
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:17 PM
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RV10inOz RV10inOz is offline
 
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Quote:
Lycoming could only give me the book response, fill it to 10 qts. This obviously wasn't practical for me before the air oil separator.
Lycoming make a great solid engine......but they also make me cringe whenever the open their mouth.

Bill, simple method.....will probably use about 100ml per hour (1qt/10hrs in your lingo).

If you are using more, the level for YOUR engine is too high.

Start at 8 Qts and do not add any....none, zip or nothing, until it goes under say 6qts, and keep an eye on the rate of disappearance.

You will see where it settles.

For us it is easier to keep it around 7 and that typically means 6.0-7.2, and if it is 6.3 and only an hour out and back, I don't add anything until i get back, then tip a whole bottle in.

Scarily they will run on 2-3 for certification testing
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  #16  
Old 11-10-2012, 07:35 PM
douglassmt douglassmt is offline
 
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Default Consumption

Bill - I'll have to check but I think I'm in the 12-15 hrs per quart used at 225 on the Hobbs. Aerosport said healthy engine should use a qt in 10-15 hours. I agree with David regarding levels. I too started out trying to keep it above 9 qts but soon realized I was just wasting oil.
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  #17  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:40 PM
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Bill.Peyton Bill.Peyton is offline
 
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Thanks Bryan,
225 hours since March! Wow
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2012, 09:36 PM
jchang10 jchang10 is offline
 
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Not yet. As a temporary installation, i just ran the flex hose straight down above the right exhaust (instead of left according to plans) to see how things worked out.

One day when i get time, i may add the exhaust connection. However, without it, it has made a huge difference already on consumption and oil on the belly.

Also, my install kit came with the wrong return oil fitting. it was a size too small for the best hole in the accessory case. I mentioned it to Allan.

Also, i remember another thing Lycoming told me at Oshkosh (Jim who runs the Lycoming school). After he told me fill to 10 quarts, he said that they have engines run for hours on end with ZERO for oil consumption. I didn't get a chance to get him to elaborate more on that.

Thus, i have to wonder who is right here? zero oil consumption or the oft quoted 5 to 20 hours per quart?

Also, on this thread, we are all in agreement about anything more than 7.5 qts in the sump seems to go straight out the breather. I have heard that engines vary and see what level your engine likes. However, what's the logic here? These engines are more or less identical. Why would they vary so much in this regard?

Jae

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill.Peyton View Post
Thanks for all the feedback. Here is what I plan to do. I have the Antisplat
Air Oil sep. I am not going to install it till I try to ascertain the oil consumption over the next 25 hours with 9qts and 8 qts. I know what it is with 10. After which I may install the AI Sep to keep the belly clean.

Bryan, what type of consumption do you see?

Jchang, did you also install the valve on the exhaust?
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  #19  
Old 11-11-2012, 06:59 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Seems like a good thread to post some data.

Recently installed an oil separator/case evacuator system on the 390. Having built similar systems for roadrace bikes back in the 80's I am comfortable with the concept.

The separator itself is very similar to the one sold by Antisplat, a nice design. Mine started out as an old Delco AC accumulator can. Just buy Allen's if you don't have a TIG and a junk pile.



The exhaust pipe tap is the usual NAPA #2-29000 smog pump check valve.
In the OEM application these valves were often installed very near exhaust manifolds, but not screwed directly into them. I think it's important to keep temperature under control if we want them to last a long time, so here you see a disc of ordinary .030" sheet steel welded to the NPT pipe bushing before the valve is screwed on. It serves as a sink for heat conducted along the 5/8' tube, and as a radiant heat shield. To reduce the possibility of exhaust header cracking at the weld, keep the 5/8 tube short, and keep the hose run flexible.



Run time is now about 5 hours, not enough to firmly establish the effect on oil consumption. It does appear to be reduced. I don't know exactly how much yet. So far the stick is down a 1/4 qt or less. The belly is bone dry, as any breather oil now exits via the tailpipe. I pulled the clamped hose off the valve yesterday and poked a finger up in the tube. There was only the faintest film of oil on the tube wall.

Breather pressure was measured in flight, with the gauge tap connected near the separator inlet. The system operates at a negative 2.5 to 3.5 inches Hg, measured with an ancient manifold vacuum gauge. Typical cruise is about 2.75". A healthy Lycoming with an open breather would have a breather pressure more like 0 to 0.3" Hg positive, so the system is definitely pulling a vacuum on the case. I'd love to see one of our engine shops do back to back dyno runs with and without an evacuator, as theory says there will be a slight HP increase. Even if not, the vacuum should reduce those pesky minor case and seal leaks.

More later after some hours.
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Last edited by DanH : 11-12-2012 at 08:17 AM.
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  #20  
Old 11-11-2012, 07:39 AM
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Bill.Peyton Bill.Peyton is offline
 
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Dan,
Did you scarf the inner tube? I see it is mounted straight in on the exhaust tube.
Bill
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