VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.

  #1  
Old 10-22-2012, 12:42 PM
Ironflight's Avatar
Ironflight Ironflight is offline
VAF Moderator / Line Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,835
Default I Busted It?.

In the nanosecond between when my mind realized what my fingers were about to do and when the muscles contracted, there wasn?t time to put out a ?Don?t Do it!? order on the neural net?.and the next sound we heard in Mikey?s cockpit was this horrible ?clang?.whirrrr??? Yup ? pilot-induced kickback! It was my leg to fly after a fuel stop on our way to an airpark fly-out, and it was one of those hot starts where it cranked a few blades, fired, then didn?t, so I let off?and just as I was going to try again, it fired again ? and the six-year-old Flyweight didn?t have a chance. After some inappropriate language on my part, I climbed out and went around front to give a tap on the cowling ? and the starter "tapped" back ? it was definitely loose underneath there. It was pretty ugly - but at least it was a clean break!






Fortunately, we had the necessary tools to pull the cowling there on the ramp, and sure enough, we had a free-hanging starter. Also fortunately, Mikey usually starts really well, especially when warm, so we pulled the remains of the starter, taped up the ends of the cable, re-cowled, and hand-propped for the trip to lunch and then home.

Now despite the fact that I have several thousand hours with the Sky-Tec Flyweights without any failures (up until now), the company has done a lot of work in the past decade at improving their products, and our latest Mattituck engine came with their newer NL style starter ? which has a shear pin in the drive. I personally think it is nice to have something that will shear before the housing, and here was a chance to upgrade on the cheap, so I just got off the phone with the folks in Granbury, and they are sending out a new NL in trade for the broken LS that I can ship back (along with a credit card number for the $54 price difference, and my share of the repair bill of course). Mikey should be ready to go in two days, and that only leaves the Valkyrie with her original LS starter ? which is working just great!

Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-22-2012, 01:36 PM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 16,106
Default

Ouch
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-22-2012, 01:46 PM
scard's Avatar
scard scard is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 3,368
Default

I love the pictures. We all do silly things sometimes . I'm fixin' to post my series of pictures of how one simple ignored chipped tooth in a ring gear can cost $300 (two for the starter and one for a new ring gear).
__________________
Scott Card
CQ Headset by Card Machine Works
CMW E-Lift
RV-9A N4822C flying 2200+hrs. / Cedar Park, TX
RV8 Building - fuselage / showplanes canopy (Done!)
VAF Advertiser
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-22-2012, 02:09 PM
JonJay's Avatar
JonJay JonJay is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348
Default

Bummer. I have done the exact same thing and got away with it with no damage. I will try to be disciplined and remove my hand from the switch as soon as she catches. It is just too easy to do this.
__________________
Smart People do Stupid things all the time. I know, I've seen me do'em.

RV6 - Builder/Flying
Bucker Jungmann
Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-22-2012, 02:31 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,858
Default

Is the real problem here Lycoming's use of only one impulse/retard mag? So as the key goes back to both the non retard mag fires early and causes the kickback? Would having two impulse mags fix this? Or even using independent Mag switches instead of the key switch?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-22-2012, 02:57 PM
rleffler's Avatar
rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 4,286
Default

It would be nice is Van's supplied the NL instead of the LS.

I was able to get a good deal to swap my un-used LS for a NL.

The NL does come with extra pins glued to the case, just in case you shear one away from home.
__________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - RV10 Flying
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-22-2012, 03:39 PM
RV7Guy's Avatar
RV7Guy RV7Guy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 3,000
Default Nominal wt. Diff

The weight difference between the Standard and LS is .8 lb. However, the website says ALL are equipped with a Kickback Protection System.

If I have a problem with my LS I'm going to go with the NL. Not worth potential issues.
__________________
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
www.JDair.com
RV-7 N717EE-Flying (Sold)
RV-7 N717AZ Painted and Complete
2021 Gold Lindy Grand Champion Kit Plane
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-22-2012, 03:48 PM
Ironflight's Avatar
Ironflight Ironflight is offline
VAF Moderator / Line Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,835
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
Is the real problem here Lycoming's use of only one impulse/retard mag? So as the key goes back to both the non retard mag fires early and causes the kickback? Would having two impulse mags fix this? Or even using independent Mag switches instead of the key switch?
Not sure....might be....this is the only airplane we have with a key switch - our others have separate ignition and start switches.
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-22-2012, 06:10 PM
AltonD's Avatar
AltonD AltonD is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dothan, Alabama
Posts: 1,492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
Not sure....might be....this is the only airplane we have with a key switch - our others have separate ignition and start switches.
After replacing a starter for the very same reason (Sky-Tec, no charge), I start mine like a radial, engage starter, count 3 blades, turn on a mag (one impulse, one lightspeed, either one will do the job).

It is working for me so far.
__________________
Alton DeWeese
N526RV RV7A Tip Up, IO360 180 W/Hartzel BA prop.
Flying ~950 hours since Aug 2010
N4IDH

Construction Log
?The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one.?

?Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-22-2012, 07:25 PM
PCHunt PCHunt is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,816
Default OTOH

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJay View Post
Bummer. I have done the exact same thing and got away with it with no damage. I will try to be disciplined and remove my hand from the switch as soon as she catches. It is just too easy to do this.
Hmmmm. I thought it was better to keep the key switch in the crank position for a couple of seconds after the engine starts. The theory is: by continuing to crank, the right mag is grounded, and can't fire, which allows the left mag with its delayed spark start the engine. Then when you release the key switch, the right mag kicks in.

If you release the key switch too soon, when the engine RPM is too low, the right mag can fire at 25 degrees BTC and cause kick-back.

Engine Gurus chime in please.
__________________
Pete Hunt, [San Diego] VAF #1069
RV-6, RV-6A, T-6G
ATP, CFII, A&P

2021 Donation+, Gladly Sent
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:11 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.