Considering buying a project

NTex · #1 10-11-2012, 08:50 PM

First off, thanks to everyone who contributes and runs this website. It's been the best source for RV information I could find. Right now I live in Dallas, so I plan to poke my head in the local EAA chapter and apparently 52F, where a lot of RVs hang out. Unfortunately, my work has me on about a 3-5 month rotation to Omaha. The good news is, it will be good for my career and I'll save a lot of money by expensing everything, but I'll also be away from the potential project.

I've been trolling this forum for years, and the 9 meets my mission....and am considering now is the time to make the plunge. I'm young (comparatively), no kids, girlfriend would put up with the hit on time and finances, etc. I'm pretty tired of renting 172s for $140+ and hour, and not being able to keep it for a weekend trip.

The reason I'm attracted to projects near or at the "on wheels" point is that I've never done any metal craftsmanship, and I'd like to get it flying sooner rather than later. My day job is an engineering inspector, but my wheelhouse is design and instrumentation/controls. So, I'd be pretty comfortable with the avionics installation, but not so much the structural or powerplant aspects. The NTSB report of EAB aircraft identifies the fuel systems as a major contributor to accidents, by the way. Good recommendations in that report: http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/2012...udy/index.html

Anyhow, I've seen a few threads with good advice on what to expect. Here's some great advice I've seen:
-thorough pre-buy
-get a list of what's included, and the progress of the build
-deviations from the plans
-confirmation of current owner for paperwork

I have few questions, maybe the expertise here can help.

What kind of insurance is needed/recommended for the kit, prior to flight? I don't want "aircraft insurance" quite yet since obviously a project isn't airworthy. However, the components are worth quite a bit. I want to insure the kit, in a rented hanger (perhaps renters insurance?), prior to it's first flight. This would also likely been a contingency for my financing.

Is it possible to get a repairman certificate for an RV (non-12)? I found a few EAA workshops, but they seem to be focused on the LSA -12. Needless to say, part of the attractiveness of the RV was the ability to do my own maint. and a cheaper "annual."

Lastly...thanks! I'll take any advice you're willing to give.

Cheers,
Chris

fehdxl · #2 10-11-2012, 09:10 PM

While you are in Omaha stop by and we can talk RV's... My -10 is probably 45% done and 450% to go. Jim. PS I'll PM you my cell number.

Mike S · #3 10-11-2012, 10:47 PM

Chris, welcome to the good ship VAF

You will like the nine.

BobTurner · #4 10-11-2012, 11:07 PM

As of a few years ago builder's insurance was available at 1% of stated value. e.g., if your parts were worth $60K the cost was $600 per year. I've heard that the cost has dropped since then.

Maintenance is different for an experimental-amateur built, compared to an LSA (RV12). Anyone can work on it, no certificate needed. Once a year you need a 'condition inspection' which can be done by an A&P (no -IA needed), OR by a person holding a limited repairman certificate for that specific airplane. The FAA will usually give out only one such certificate per airplane, to the original builder. I don't know what they do when there are multiple builders, but I suspect you would have a hard time getting it if you hadn't done any of the work aft of the firewall.

NTex · #5 10-12-2012, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTurner

As of a few years ago builder's insurance was available at 1% of stated value. e.g., if your parts were worth $60K the cost was $600 per year. I've heard that the cost has dropped since then.

Maintenance is different for an experimental-amateur built, compared to an LSA (RV12). Anyone can work on it, no certificate needed. Once a year you need a 'condition inspection' which can be done by an A&P (no -IA needed), OR by a person holding a limited repairman certificate for that specific airplane. The FAA will usually give out only one such certificate per airplane, to the original builder. I don't know what they do when there are multiple builders, but I suspect you would have a hard time getting it if you hadn't done any of the work aft of the firewall.

Great info Bob, thanks. There is some minor work left on the wings, canopy, etc. I'll do some more digging about the repairman cert. I find it strange that it is not transferable. Truth is, I'd have an A&P go over everything anyway, but I'd like to option to do the condition myself.

Ironflight · #6 10-12-2012, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTex

Great info Bob, thanks. There is some minor work left on the wings, canopy, etc. I'll do some more digging about the repairman cert. I find it strange that it is not transferable. Truth is, I'd have an A&P go over everything anyway, but I'd like to option to do the condition myself.

It's not transferable because it is intended for the person who is intimately familiar with the aircraft's construction - the builder. It is common for a group to build an EAB aircraft, and only one person gets the certificate. It is also common for one person to get the certificate if the airplane has been built by a series of builders. The person applying for the certificate needs to convince the FSDO Inspector that they know enough about the airplane to judge that it is in a condition for safe operation. Different FSDO's have different standards for this, but the rule is - only one certificate per airframe.

Paul

NTex · #7 10-12-2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fehdxl

While you are in Omaha stop by and we can talk RV's... My -10 is probably 45% done and 450% to go. Jim. PS I'll PM you my cell number.

Got it Jim, thanks

NTex · #8 10-12-2012, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironflight

It's not transferable because it is intended for the person who is intimately familiar with the aircraft's construction - the builder. It is common for a group to build an EAB aircraft, and only one person gets the certificate. It is also common for one person to get the certificate if the airplane has been built by a series of builders. The person applying for the certificate needs to convince the FSDO Inspector that they know enough about the airplane to judge that it is in a condition for safe operation. Different FSDO's have different standards for this, but the rule is - only one certificate per airframe.

Paul

Learn something new everyday. Guess with a group build you draw straws?

Seems FAA's logic is solid that you want to issue an aircraft-specific repairman cert. to the primary builder.

Mel · #9 10-12-2012, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTurner

Maintenance is different for an experimental-amateur built, compared to an LSA (RV12).

Not that different. Anyone can maintain, repair, modify, etc. an experimental category aircraft, be it amateur-built or light-sport.
The repairman certificate is only for authority to perform and sign off the condition inspection.

The difference between amateur-built and light-sport certificates is who can obtain them. Subsequent owners of light-sport aircraft can obtain the repairman certificate, whereas there is only one eligible for the amateur-built certificate.

bruceh · #10 10-12-2012, 09:44 AM

Find a project that is at the "quickbuild" level of completeness and it should be no problem to get the repairman certificate. There are some good deals out there on abandoned projects.

My experience with the slow build RV-9A is that the fastest part of the project has been doing the major sheet metal construction - tail, wings, fuselage. Those have prepunched parts and excellent instructions. The skills involved can be picked up in a few hours to build a quality airframe. The systems work - electrical, firewall forward, canopy will take just as long. It is truly the 90% done (looks like an airplane), 90% to go (until it can fly).