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09-27-2012, 09:10 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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PET PEAVE ALERT!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVbySDI
Ok, Paul, I stand corrected. Airworthiness is only signed off during the Conditional Inspection.
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Uh-Oh Steve. Don't quote Paul and then in the same sentence call it a Conditional Inspection.
He will be the first to tell you that there's nothing conditional about it. It is a Condition Inspection!
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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09-27-2012, 09:17 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Peachtree City, Ga
Posts: 1,040
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Old days=A&E
Heard these same type comments back in the 50-s-60's when the FAA mechanic was called an A&E Airframe and Engine), not an A&P.
Deja vue. all over again, as Yogi Berra once said
__________________
Vern Darley
Awarded FAA "The Wright Brothers 'Master Pilot' Award"- for 50 years safe flying
RV-6A N680V / RV-10QB N353RV
Luscombe 8E N2423K 50+years
Hatz Biplane N2423Z soon to be birthed
Falcon RV Squadron Founder
KFFC Hanger D-30
Peachtree City, Ga
770 310-7169
EAA Technical Counselor #5142
EAA Flight Advisor #486336
ATP/CFI/A&P/DAR
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09-27-2012, 09:32 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
Uh-Oh Steve. Don't quote Paul and then in the same sentence call it a Conditional Inspection.
He will be the first to tell you that there's nothing conditional about it. It is a Condition Inspection!
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Ok, Mel and Paul. I will refrain from commenting on issues that rely heavily on using the correct syntax in order to be accurate. My syntax has never been known to be very good no matter what the topic may be. 
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09-27-2012, 02:11 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 626
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Knowing what to look for
Turned a wrench most of my life on everything from lawn mowers and tractors to sports cars. After two years of A&P school I can tell you they deserve their title. Can't think of any automotive school that covers hydraulics, oxygen systems, fuel vaporization, avionics or a host of other items you would never see in a car. When is the last time you mechanic did a weight and balance
No disrespect for auto mechanics, I have had the privilege of working with some good ones, just a different skill set in some very important areas.
__________________
JD
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RV-7 N314SY (KWHP)
IO-360-B1B
CANbus based trim/flaps and electrical
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09-27-2012, 03:34 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 3,778
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Depending on the circumstance, a many colorful words have been used for some A&P's "Mechanics" out there in the field... I guess just like in any other field. 
__________________
Reiley
Retired N622DR - Serial #V7A1467
VAF# 671
Repeat Offender / Race 007
Friend of the RV-1
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09-27-2012, 05:51 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight
Oh dear....once again, we have a misconception. There is only one thing that is required to be in an Experimental Aircraft's maintenance records (it doesn't need to be a logbook) - that is the annual "I Certify that this aircraft has been inspected......and is found to be in a condition for safe operation" sign-off - and that must be by the person holding the Repairman's Certificate for that airplane, or a licensed A&P. No other records are required (although as an engineer, I certainly do much more), and no "sign-offs" are required by anyone. If you DO keep detailed records along the way, of things that you do (good for you!), anyone can sign them off, since the signature dosen't really mean anything.
This stuff drives A&P's nuts BTW (and rightfully so) - the rules for Experimentals are totally different than the certified birds that they have been tried to maintain "by the book".
Paul
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Paul,
I'm not so sure about this, what is your reference for not having to record maintenance? They may be experimental but they still have airworthiness certificates.
According to 43.9
? 43.9 Content, form, and disposition of maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration records (except inspections performed in accordance with part 91, part 125, ?135.411(a)(1), and ?135.419 of this chapter).
(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive maintenance, rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:
(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of work performed.
(2) The date of completion of the work performed.
(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section.
(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed.
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)
EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
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09-27-2012, 06:33 PM
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been here awhile
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt
Paul,
I'm not so sure about this, what is your reference for not having to record maintenance? They may be experimental but they still have airworthiness certificates.
According to 43.9
? 43.9 Content, form, and disposition of maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration records (except inspections performed in accordance with part 91, part 125, ?135.411(a)(1), and ?135.419 of this chapter).
(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive maintenance, rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:
(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of work performed.
(2) The date of completion of the work performed.
(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section.
(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed.
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FAR 43.1 Applicability
(b) This part does not apply to?
(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft; or
(2) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate under the provisions of ?21.191 (i)(3) of this chapter, and the aircraft was previously issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category under the provisions of ?21.190 of this chapter.
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09-27-2012, 06:34 PM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt
Paul,
I'm not so sure about this, what is your reference for not having to record maintenance? They may be experimental but they still have airworthiness certificates.
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Well Walt, first, let me assure that I LIKE to keep records, and beleive that we SHOULD keep records. Heck, I logged all the gas and oil that went through my CARS until just a few years ago when I gave that up....but this is the reference I always see to the question of the "legal" REQUIREMENT for experimentals:
FAR Part 43.1 (b) states, "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which an experimental airworthiness certificate has been issued, unless a different kind of airworthiness certificate had previously been issued for that aircraft."
So except for the part of our Ops Lims (which I don't have handy right now) that states that we have to do our annual condition inspections "in accordance with the scope and content of part 43 blah, blah blah....we don't actually live by the Part for anything else (unless the Ops Lims specifically say so.
That's how I have always understood it, and of course, I can be wrong...I cite Mel as my educational mentor. 
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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09-27-2012, 06:57 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,686
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Oh yea, I guess it's just so ingrained in my aviation psyche that all work be documented, I overlooked this exclusion.
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)
EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
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09-27-2012, 07:11 PM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt
Oh yea, I guess it's just so ingrained in my aviation psyche that all work be documented, I overlooked this exclusion.
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That is because you are a heck of a good and meticulous mechanic Walt...uh, make that A&P! 
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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