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  #31  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:10 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
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Default PET PEAVE ALERT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVbySDI View Post
Ok, Paul, I stand corrected. Airworthiness is only signed off during the Conditional Inspection.
Uh-Oh Steve. Don't quote Paul and then in the same sentence call it a Conditional Inspection.
He will be the first to tell you that there's nothing conditional about it. It is a Condition Inspection!
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  #32  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:17 AM
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Smile Old days=A&E

Heard these same type comments back in the 50-s-60's when the FAA mechanic was called an A&E Airframe and Engine), not an A&P.

Deja vue. all over again, as Yogi Berra once said
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  #33  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:32 AM
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RVbySDI RVbySDI is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
Uh-Oh Steve. Don't quote Paul and then in the same sentence call it a Conditional Inspection.
He will be the first to tell you that there's nothing conditional about it. It is a Condition Inspection!
Ok, Mel and Paul. I will refrain from commenting on issues that rely heavily on using the correct syntax in order to be accurate. My syntax has never been known to be very good no matter what the topic may be.
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  #34  
Old 09-27-2012, 02:11 PM
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jdeas jdeas is offline
 
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Default Knowing what to look for

Turned a wrench most of my life on everything from lawn mowers and tractors to sports cars. After two years of A&P school I can tell you they deserve their title. Can't think of any automotive school that covers hydraulics, oxygen systems, fuel vaporization, avionics or a host of other items you would never see in a car. When is the last time you mechanic did a weight and balance


No disrespect for auto mechanics, I have had the privilege of working with some good ones, just a different skill set in some very important areas.
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  #35  
Old 09-27-2012, 03:34 PM
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LifeofReiley LifeofReiley is offline
 
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Default

Depending on the circumstance, a many colorful words have been used for some A&P's "Mechanics" out there in the field... I guess just like in any other field.
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  #36  
Old 09-27-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
Oh dear....once again, we have a misconception. There is only one thing that is required to be in an Experimental Aircraft's maintenance records (it doesn't need to be a logbook) - that is the annual "I Certify that this aircraft has been inspected......and is found to be in a condition for safe operation" sign-off - and that must be by the person holding the Repairman's Certificate for that airplane, or a licensed A&P. No other records are required (although as an engineer, I certainly do much more), and no "sign-offs" are required by anyone. If you DO keep detailed records along the way, of things that you do (good for you!), anyone can sign them off, since the signature dosen't really mean anything.

This stuff drives A&P's nuts BTW (and rightfully so) - the rules for Experimentals are totally different than the certified birds that they have been tried to maintain "by the book".

Paul
Paul,
I'm not so sure about this, what is your reference for not having to record maintenance? They may be experimental but they still have airworthiness certificates.

According to 43.9

? 43.9 Content, form, and disposition of maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration records (except inspections performed in accordance with part 91, part 125, ?135.411(a)(1), and ?135.419 of this chapter).
(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive maintenance, rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:

(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of work performed.

(2) The date of completion of the work performed.

(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section.

(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed.
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  #37  
Old 09-27-2012, 06:33 PM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
Paul,
I'm not so sure about this, what is your reference for not having to record maintenance? They may be experimental but they still have airworthiness certificates.

According to 43.9

? 43.9 Content, form, and disposition of maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration records (except inspections performed in accordance with part 91, part 125, ?135.411(a)(1), and ?135.419 of this chapter).
(a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, each person who maintains, performs preventive maintenance, rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:

(1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the Administrator) of work performed.

(2) The date of completion of the work performed.

(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section.

(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work performed.
FAR 43.1 Applicability

(b) This part does not apply to?

(1) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft; or

(2) Any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate under the provisions of ?21.191 (i)(3) of this chapter, and the aircraft was previously issued a special airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category under the provisions of ?21.190 of this chapter.
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  #38  
Old 09-27-2012, 06:34 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
Paul,
I'm not so sure about this, what is your reference for not having to record maintenance? They may be experimental but they still have airworthiness certificates.
Well Walt, first, let me assure that I LIKE to keep records, and beleive that we SHOULD keep records. Heck, I logged all the gas and oil that went through my CARS until just a few years ago when I gave that up....but this is the reference I always see to the question of the "legal" REQUIREMENT for experimentals:

FAR Part 43.1 (b) states, "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which an experimental airworthiness certificate has been issued, unless a different kind of airworthiness certificate had previously been issued for that aircraft."

So except for the part of our Ops Lims (which I don't have handy right now) that states that we have to do our annual condition inspections "in accordance with the scope and content of part 43 blah, blah blah....we don't actually live by the Part for anything else (unless the Ops Lims specifically say so.

That's how I have always understood it, and of course, I can be wrong...I cite Mel as my educational mentor.
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  #39  
Old 09-27-2012, 06:57 PM
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Oh yea, I guess it's just so ingrained in my aviation psyche that all work be documented, I overlooked this exclusion.
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Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
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Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
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  #40  
Old 09-27-2012, 07:11 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
Oh yea, I guess it's just so ingrained in my aviation psyche that all work be documented, I overlooked this exclusion.
That is because you are a heck of a good and meticulous mechanic Walt...uh, make that A&P!
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