RV's for Sale & Prices

[petervs]

I am a little surprised by the attitude of folks concerning price. Clearly price is determined by supply and demand, and we know demand is low due to the economy and shrinking pilot population. BUT....

Why are RV prices as low as they are? Basically they cost less than the sum of materials. Why should we owners not do what we can to get prices up to a more reasonable level? I say reasonable in light of what else can you buy for $100k that is only a few years old and has the performance of an RV? Nothing comes close. $250k buys you a 5 year old Cessna or Cirrus, but that is less performance and 2 extra seats, and a 2 1/2 price multiplier.

RVs have been selling for way too little for way too long in my opinion! Owners should stop giving them away and hold out for a more realistic price. When all the cheap ones are gone buyers will still come along and pay more.

[N427EF]

What you are suggesting is called price fixing.
The free market with supply and demand is the only determining factor in setting a price for anything.
We'd all like to get more out of our airplanes when the time comes to sell.
Even though a lot of RVs are built to higher standards than a certified airplane
many are not. Some of these really shoddy examples are undermining the confidence of potential buyers and keep the pool of buyers of experimental aircraft relatively small. Incidentally, the market for certified airplanes is no better and prices have been depressed for several years.
On the supply side, some are building one RV and others a dozen or more.
The OP asked for opinions on the value of an RV-8 in an open forum which is what he got.
If the seller thinks he can get the price and has the patience to wait for it,
no ones opinion matters.
Good luck to both buyer and seller.

I have a Mooney and a Glasair 3 Kit for sale. I don't expect to get anything near what they are worth. That's the realities of selling a airplane. Buyers market.

[rv6rick]

Ed. NOTE from Rick: This new thread was initiated by a for sale add. This thread is related to RV's (in general) for sale and the prices they are (or are not) bringing.

The 3 posts ABOVE were moved here by me from the 'other' thread. Courtesy PM sent to posters.

[LAMPSguy]

Nothing is worth more than someone is willing to pay for it. When you have a vested emotional interest in something the natural tendency is to place a higher value of "worth" on it.

This is the same phenomena with the housing market starting in the mid 2000's. People didn't sell their houses at reasonable rates for the market demand at the time because they thought they were "worth" more. They subsequently lost the opportunity to accept a fair price and had to settle for another fair, albeit lower price later on.

Just my 2 cents, but I think a lot of people here are in it for some of the fun and education included in the build. If someone had a brand new RV exactly as I would build it, well built, but priced at $250,000 (for say a 7 or 8) I would just build it myself and I think most others would. But if the same aircraft was for sale for $100, I doubt many would pass the offer just because they REALLY wanted to build. Somewhere in the middle lies the appropriate price. When the hands shake, that price was appropriate for both parties.

[RV6_flyer]

Originally Posted by GeneL

The economy is the overall driving factor.

Exactly. I am making more money than I was 4-years ago but everything I spend my money on is higher than it was 4-years ago. In other words, my income went up but everything that I spend it on went up higher. I now have less to spend and it buys me less than it did 4-years ago.

I set my life up 20-years ago so that I would have money to fly as much as I want. I was flying 200 to 250 hours a year from 1997 through 2008. Each year since 2008 my hours have dropped. Last year, my airplane only flew 83 hours.

Why? My employer is demanding more hours and off hours than ever before. (I am looking for a new job and will change so as to have income and time off that I desire.) $1 for fuel buys less fuel than ever and it is only going to go up more. I did get hours in rental aircraft obtaining additional ratings so that did take some of the fuel money out of my airplane but there is only so much time that one has after doing the things that one must that gets left for flying.

Until pay goes up or all other prices come down, we are not going to be able to get the prices that we did for our aircraft 4-years ago.

Everywhere I put 4-years could be changed to 6-years or 10-years. The last 4-years is where I have felt the most pain.

[Dogcowdaddy]

Over the last 30 years I've owned 7 airplanes, and always liked to say that I had never sold one for less than I paid for it, and in fact had "made" money on some. That was until the last one which I sold a few weeks ago. Granted it was a Piper Tomahawk, but I ended up selling it for 15% less than I paid for it 3 years ago. It seems that times are changing, and the combination of a shrinking pilot population, poor economy, and tight banking conditions are taking there toll on aircraft prices in general. I am currently looking for a RV-4 or -6 and have been closely watching the market since around June. There are a number of aircraft which have been popping on and off the market since that time, with the price slowly dropping. Very few appear to have sold, and those that did sold after a couple of price drops from the initial ask. It's obviously not what a seller would like but it seems to be the reality, and I don't see conditions improving anytime soon (IMHO/YMMV). From my perspective I decided that life's too short to fly around in an aircraft you don't want to be in any more, so I took my lumps on my Tomahawk. If I had wanted to wait around longer, maybe I could have done better (but I doubt it). In the end it's an individual choice based on the situation of the seller, and how they view the current/future market.

FWIW

Jim

[RVbySDI]

Originally Posted by RV6_flyer

Exactly. I am making more money than I was 4-years ago but everything I spend my money on is higher than it was 4-years ago. In other words, my income went up but everything that I spend it on went up higher. I now have less to spend and it buys me less than it did 4-years ago.

I set my life up 20-years ago so that I would have money to fly as much as I want. I was flying 200 to 250 hours a year from 1997 through 2008. Each year since 2008 my hours have dropped. Last year, my airplane only flew 83 hours.

Why? My employer is demanding more hours and off hours than ever before. (I am looking for a new job and will change so as to have income and time off that I desire.) $1 for fuel buys less fuel than ever and it is only going to go up more. I did get hours in rental aircraft obtaining additional ratings so that did take some of the fuel money out of my airplane but there is only so much time that one has after doing the things that one must that gets left for flying.

Until pay goes up or all other prices come down, we are not going to be able to get the prices that we did for our aircraft 4-years ago.

Everywhere I put 4-years could be changed to 6-years or 10-years. The last 4-years is where I have felt the most pain.

This is a very poignant post. I am in a somewhat similar position with one major difference. You state you are making more money but spending more also. My problem, and I think many many others as well, is that I am NOT making more money than I was 4 years ago. I am not making less but not making more either. So in addition to not making more money I also have to pay more for everything.

Regardless of my income, everything I buy is going up considerably in price. 4 years ago I think 100LL was around $2.00 - $2.50 per gallon. Don't quote me on that, that is just a guestimate from what I can remember from back then. Now it is around $5.00 - $6.00 and continuing to increase every time I go to the pumps. Without an increase in my disposable income that is causing problems.

Truth be told though, the price increase of 100LL is just one of the many items I purchase that continues to increase constantly. Food, clothing, my insurance premiums, the price of eating in a restaurant, fees of every conceivable type for anything and everything, taxes, everything I have to purchase keeps getting more and more expensive. Those expenses have to be covered by an income stream that is stagnant. Eventually something will have to give. 100LL is a luxury. Currently I can afford the luxury. I am not so sure in the future if that will be true. The reality is I may find out there are a lot of other "luxuries" I am currently paying for that may have to go away also.

This is the real problem with our economy. Even if one does have an income that covers their expenses, people are being squeezed too much. Well, need to keep this RV related so, I think I might have to go fly my RV soon to cleanse my soul a little of all of these headache inducing economics/politics thoughts.

[N42AH]

And soon, very soon we are going to have to pay a $100.00 user fee each time we go fly to make it fair. Exactly who will have to pay the $100 I haven't figured out yet.

Read a report the other day of an AG guy, because he is "Commercial" was going to have to pay the fee for each and every load he hauls. Maybe Pierre can tell us what he is expecting.

[Ron Lee]

Originally Posted by N42AH

And soon, very soon we are going to have to pay a $100.00 user fee each time we go fly to make it fair. Exactly who will have to pay the $100 I haven't figured out yet.

Hold on with that statement. Cite a searchable source that proves it. At one point there was a desire by the US Government to charge airlines and some other users around $100 USD per flight for something (ATC services?).

I do not know if that passed but my recollection was that it did not impact GA aircraft. Does not make it right to assess the targeted users of course.