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08-27-2012, 01:12 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Posts: 432
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High Speed Taxi Tests
I thought long and hard about how I was going to taxi-test my -8A. The answer was there in numerous articles published by Vans: Don't do taxi tests beyond published stall / liftoff speeds unless you are prepared for Plan B. Even then, don't do it! Bad things have repeatedly been shown to happen to the unprepared.
Funny how we have lately seen a series of posterscomplain about the quality and quantity of info in Vans building instructions, but also seem to have a subset of folks ignore stuff that is published in great detail.
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08-27-2012, 01:18 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Collierville, TN (KFYE)
Posts: 1,433
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In the early '80s, I was at a local crop dusting strip that was used for glider towing on Sundays and there was a guy there giving instruction in an ultralight...he had a new student taxiing back and forth, and on one of his taxi trips, he lifted off, panicked, and hit the gas, up he went and for the next two minutes, we watched a real life "drunken farmer" airshow routine, which ended thankfully with his getting back on the ground safely somehow. The place was silent until someone yelled "cut off his shirttail!"...it could have very well ended up differently.
__________________
RV-8 #81077 Super Slow Build
Dynon Skyview HDX, Titan IOX-370, Dual P-Mags, AFP FM200A FI, Whirlwind 200RV CS Prop
First Flight 11/20/2016
www.marksrv8.com
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08-27-2012, 01:48 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Taylorsville, GA
Posts: 748
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What does "integrity" mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner
Now comes the test of the insurance company's integrity. Will they attempt to deny coverage because the plane was flown, inadvertantly, without an A/W certificate?
I'd like to hear of the outcome, good or bad, and the name of the company. Just for my info.
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Insurance company's integrity? Does integrity mean that they should pay the pilot, even though he's NOT done what the policy requires?
The insurance company will do exactly what the policy says it must do. If the pilot was paying for Not in Motion or Not in Flight coverage - which isn't unreasonable for a yet to be signed off project - then he'll get exactly what he paid for.
How much more would we all pay for insurance, if we expected them to pay for airplanes without requiring any underwriting?
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Jeff Rhodes - Taylorsville, GA
RV-9, 7 - going fast
BC-12D - going slow
jrhodes@v1salesmgt.com
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08-27-2012, 02:06 PM
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Forum Peruser
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
Posts: 2,458
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When is "Not in Motion" in motion?
Jeff, if a pilot is attempting to start his engine, sees and smells smoke, and before he can find a fire extinguisher but after he has gotten out, the engine compartment erupts in flames which quickly destroy the whole plane...is this considered "Not in Motion?"
In other words, if he had only "not in motion" insurance, would the typical policy cover such a situation?
One of our RV builders here (here in these forums) lost an airplane in this manner (I have NO idea about his insurance coverage) and seeing his video brought that question to mind.
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Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
KDCU Pryor Field
Pilots'n Paws Pilot
N79599/ADS-B In and Out...and I like it!
?Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard
Last edited by rv7boy : 08-27-2012 at 03:32 PM.
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08-27-2012, 02:20 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN.
Posts: 4,792
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My insurance company told me pretty clearly that until I got the required transition training, i shouldn't even go ON the runway if I wanted to be covered. And so, I didn't.
I have done, subsequent to that training, a couple of "high speed taxis," in which I simulated a takeoff run and then shut down before I was airborne or shortly after airborne.
In both cases I was checking a specific change in the airplane that might have affected stability at those speeds -- adding wheelpants, for example or a tightened axle nut. In both cases I was fully prepared to fly and fully authorized to fly.
If I had tried it, however, before first flight and before transition training, there's no question I would end up off the side of the runway in a heap. I would have had no idea how much right rudder it takes to keep an RV centered compared to the spam cans I'd been renting.
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08-27-2012, 03:17 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: lena, il.
Posts: 305
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nose leg
Pierre, Was the 9a fitted with the leg brace ? Just curious. Thanks Ron
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08-27-2012, 03:53 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,904
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You tried.
Don't beat yourself up over this. You did what you could. He will pay dearly for his judgement. Likely lose his license for a period of time.
I do not believe the insurance company should pay. Events like this is why we have high premiums.
Further, events like this are the exact reason the FAA is taking a more critical look at EAB. No aircraft should be allowed to move under its own power until it has been signed off. Just no reason. Brake tests etc.can be done after the pink slip is obtained.
Finally, high speed taxiing has no place in our homebuilt world. As Paul said, flight can occur very quickly.
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Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
www.JDair.com
RV-7 N717EE-Flying (Sold)
RV-7 N717AZ Flying, in paint
EMS Bell 407,
Eurocopter 350 A-Star Driver
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08-27-2012, 04:07 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
Posts: 3,564
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There was an accident report in the most recent GA news magazine, which described an RV-6A fatality that was caused by the exact same scenario.
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Please don't PM me! Email only!
Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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08-27-2012, 04:26 PM
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been here awhile
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv7boy
Jeff, if a pilot is attempting to start his engine, sees and smells smoke, and before he can find a fire extinguisher but after he has gotten out, the engine compartment erupts in flames which quickly destroy the whole plane...is this considered "Not in Motion?"
In other words, if he had only "not in motion" insurance, would the typical policy cover such a situation?
One of our RV builders here (here in these forums) lost an airplane in this manner (I have NO idea about his insurance coverage) and seeing his video brought that question to mind.
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Policies are very clear in this regard. My GNIM (ground, not in motion) policy covers hull until the engine starts. Once the engine is running, the plane is in "motion". Ground in motion policies cover hull until you take the active runway.
No gray areas here. Very unlikely there would be an engine fire if the engine had never started in some fashion.
Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 08-27-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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08-27-2012, 04:32 PM
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been here awhile
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadstat
What more could I have done?
I watched my buddy in the next hanger finish his Zenair 701 over the last year. I warned him about the high speed taxi that I have seen damage so many light weight, low inertia planes and Ultralights. I offered to take him up in the RV for a little refresher. He said he would rent a Cessna before flying. He took a factory demo in type 2 years ago.
I wasn't there when he accidently lifted off last Thursday during a high speed taxi, cut the power and 'wheel barrowed' into the runway several times. Plane was not yet signed off. Prop gone and nose wheel almost through the floor board. Structural warps evident. Not quite a total. I feel I should have prevented this but how? Insurance in effect 2 weeks.
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John,
We have had four fatalities in experimental aircraft in our area that everyone associated "saw" coming. In each case the doomed pilot was unwilling to accept any statements of concern for their dangerous situation....and while we were saddened by their loss......we were in no way surprised. I'm sure many on the forum have seen the same movie play out in their community.
Some people are just hard headed.
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