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  #81  
Old 09-02-2012, 07:09 PM
rgmwa rgmwa is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
I think that is just the angle the photos were taken, several of us compared our holes and it appears they are all the same, but look different from the angle photographed.
Hmm, not sure about that Don. Mine is like #41 with a fairly wide flat area around the washer, unlike #60 which has virtually no extra room adjacent to the washer. Anyway, they both cracked so we're probably not adding much to the debate here, although a wider flat would allow the use of an oversized washer or packer to distribute the bolt force over a wider area.
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  #82  
Old 09-02-2012, 07:16 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
I just got email notification of another "wrinkle skin" damage in central PA, that makes 8 of them. He had not checked for channel cracking yet, but desires to not be named or identified by plane ID.
As someone said, it does seem strange that only RV12s get the poor pilots, the good ones apparently are buying Skycatchers, Sonex, and Zeniths and not having this type problem due to their superior piloting skils..
It is my opinion that you are beginning to cross the line with a statement like this Don, but I probably don't even need to say anything because I believe most of the readers of this forum realize how ridiculous of a statement this is.

I can't point you to an statistical data (but then again you didn't either), but I have heard through the industry grape vine that significant number of all of the Sky catchers delivered so far have been involved in some type of an accident.

It is one thing to say you are passing along info for the good of the RV-12 brotherhood, but it is another thing all together when you make public statements like this... just sayin

Last edited by rvbuilder2002 : 09-02-2012 at 08:33 PM.
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  #83  
Old 09-02-2012, 08:00 PM
Dave12 Dave12 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
As someone said, it does seem strange that only RV12s get the poor pilots, the good ones apparently are buying Skycatchers, Sonex, and Zeniths and not having this type problem due to their superior piloting skils..
Perhaps a Dale Carnegie course is in order?
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  #84  
Old 09-02-2012, 08:23 PM
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DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
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You might be right. I just was furnished this photo, that would indicate at first glance that the process has changed for cutting the hole. This is from a very recently provided kit. No idea why it may have been changed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgmwa View Post
Hmm, not sure about that Don. Mine is like #41 with a fairly wide flat area around the washer, unlike #60 which has virtually no extra room adjacent to the washer. Anyway, they both cracked so we're probably not adding much to the debate here, although a wider flat would allow the use of an oversized washer or packer to distribute the bolt force over a wider area.
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  #85  
Old 09-02-2012, 08:31 PM
dick seiders dick seiders is offline
 
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I appreciate your suggestion Scott, and I agree if such an avenue for helpful feedback to Van's exists it should be utilized. As an RV12 owner/flyer however I would like to know and feel all owners have a right to know how widespread the issue is. The poll would be helpful in that regard. It tells us the magnitude and breadth of the problem so we might better understand if we all need to be concerned, and/or looking for a fix from Vans or if it's just an isolated few cases due to a clearly identifiable cause in the construction process.
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  #86  
Old 09-02-2012, 08:40 PM
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DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
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That was a "tongue in cheek" comment and I can believe that most would take it that way (notice the emoticon?). The comment was made by a person that called this problem to the attention of Vans, and was told there is no problem with the gear attachment, it can only be caused by poor piloting skills. This seems to be a problem with Vans, perhaps an easy process of notifying some department of Vans of such problems would help. It was my intention to bring this problem to the attention of everyone, so that they could report problems and be aware of the need to check the channel for cracks. That is only my opinion, and if you don't want to check it, then don't.
There seems to be two problems with your suggestion, first for some reason not fully understood by me, some of those with the problem are NOT wanting it to be made public, i e no reports will be made. The second problem with reporting, is that most don't actually KNOW what caused it or even when it happened. Not nice and clean for understanding the problem, but that seems to be the way it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
It is my opinion that you are beginning to cross the line with a statement like this Don, but I probably don't even need to say anything because I believe most of the readers of this forum realize how ridicules of a statement this is.

I can't point you to an statistical data (but then again you didn't either), but I have heard through the industry grape vine that significant number of all of the Sky catchers delivered so far have been involved in some type of an accident.

It is one thing to say you are passing along info for the good of the RV-12 brotherhood, but it is another thing all together when you make public statements like this... just sayin
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  #87  
Old 09-02-2012, 09:27 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
This seems to be a problem with Vans, perhaps an easy process of notifying some department of Vans of such problems would help.
I have previously, and just again today mentioned a process that is already in place. People simply need to use it. If the process is used, it is providing the information directly to the engineering department.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
There seems to be two problems with your suggestion, first for some reason not fully understood by me, some of those with the problem are NOT wanting it to be made public, i e no reports will be made. The second problem with reporting, is that most don't actually KNOW what caused it or even when it happened. Not nice and clean for understanding the problem, but that seems to be the way it is.
I can't help with the first of your problems... but I don't see the second as being a problem.
The intent isn't to receive an analysis of what caused the damage and why, it is simply to acquire information to begin to analyze the problem. I don't see how that is any different from what you say you are doing.

As for someone in the office denying that their was a problem... It is likely that the person that called was the very first person to do so. It may come as a surprise, but no one at Van's jumps into action from one call with very little detailed info., and sounds an alarm that there is a major problem. If every individual call made by customers, who thought there was a design or part production issue were immediately researched, it would literally require hiring a full time employee for just that job. Van's is no different than any other company, there needs to be some indication that an issue is something more than a single isolated event.

As far as tongue in cheek... I think the readers of this forum have come to know you well enough (at least the personality you extend on-line), that they know exactly what you meant.........
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  #88  
Old 09-03-2012, 12:17 AM
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Jerry Cochran Jerry Cochran is offline
 
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This thread started 7/13/12 and just now someone is reporting it to Van's???
I'm glad at least Scott appears to monitor the forum. But he was on vacation so looks like Van's was in the dark.. maybe.

With due respect they should check in for these kind of problems that are festering... Would take an hour a week. They should not be the last to know.. maybe some expect them to be oracles?

A suggestion, if you experience this kind of what I see as a serious problem, at least email them with a headsup...If it's ignored, then its on them...
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  #89  
Old 09-03-2012, 05:46 AM
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joedallas joedallas is offline
 
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Default Information is a good thing

The reading of this form keeps us informed of all thinks going on with the RV12 ( Both good and Bad ) as pilot in command we are responsible to take all pertinent information into account.
Input from vans is a good thing, and input from people like don is also a good thing.
At the time of this post don has about 1600 posts , and In my view has kept me informed of things to consider while building my 12. some I agree with and some not so much.
This one I agree with Scott and Don that all items of concern should be sent to Vans , and also posted on this form to Mitigate Damage. One life lost Is way too many.
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  #90  
Old 09-03-2012, 05:52 AM
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Geico266 Geico266 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joedallas View Post
The reading of this form keeps us informed of all thinks going on with the RV12 ( Both good and Bad ) as pilot in command we are responsible to take all pertinent information into account.
Input from vans is a good thing, and input from people like don is also a good thing.
At the time of this post don has about 1600 posts , and In my view has kept me informed of things to consider while building my 12. some I agree with and some not so much.
This one I agree with Scott and Don that all items of concern should be sent to Vans , and also posted on this form to Mitigate Damage. One life lost Is way too many.
MY View
+1

Well said Joe.
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