Nutplates/rivets/Vans Stupid Manual

[David-aviator]

Mark,

The RV-7 and RV-8 wings are about identical.

Could be the 7 narrative is lacking but in the 8 plan the information you seek is on DWG 11A (center section spar) view #4. It clearly specifies the plate nut rivets and placing the plate nut on the forward side of shear web.

Look again. I bet it is there.

[Flyin'Bryan]

Originally Posted by David-aviator

Mark,

The RV-7 and RV-8 wings are about identical.

Could be the 7 narrative is lacking but in the 8 plan the information you seek is on DWG 11A (center section spar) view #4. It clearly specifies the plate nut rivets and placing the plate nut on the forward side of shear web.

Look again. I bet it is there.

......As has been pointed out in some other posts, the instructions in the book do mention DWG 11A, but if you try to find that drawing in your large set of Wing plans that you received with your wing kit, you won't find it there. The reason? the center section plans come with the fuselage kit for the RV-8, and NOT the Wing kit, which is what you are currrently working on when this question comes up. All Vans needed to do was make a note that those plans come with the fuselage kit, and to reference the preview plans in the book for DWG 11A, but they don't, and you are left confused.

Just one in a number of areas where instruction improvements would save countless hours of headaches. The last time I spoke with someone about this, they told me that they asked Vans why they don't update the plans to correct some of these common problems, and the response was that they considered several of the designs to be "mature" and therefore they required no further updates to the plans. Pretty short sided if you ask me. In fact, I think there is a full time job waiting for someone at Vans for doing only this type of work, but that's just me I guess. I have even had the opportunity to review the plans for the newer designs, and I still find problems with those instructions as well.

Thank goodness for this site that helps us fill in so many of the blanks, even if we have to do a little searching to find the right answers.

[rapid_ascent]

Mark,

Most of the time the Info is there somewhere. Sometimes it takes awhile to find. Make sure you look at all the details on the drawings. When I can't find something I just keep looking. Eventually I find it.

My complaint would be that they could add more detail into the instructions. Several times thus far I've struggled to figure something out then once I do I'm like that was easy why didn't they just say that.

Just remember it's all part of the learning process. You absorb a lot of knowledge during the build. As you get farther though the build you need less help.

Seems like we are at the same point in our build. I had to ask VAF how to buck those same rivets.

Good luck,



Ray

[jimgreen]

Here's a point that took me a long time to realise:
Some of the plan sheets are specific to either the tail dragger or the nose dragger. Fine. But occasionally a vital piece of info is only on one plan version.
I spent many hours chasing down certain details until I realised you need to check the plan for both versions.
Call me dumb.

[Norman CYYJ]

Vans manuals are a whole lot better than any other manual that i have seen for a kit plane. They tell you read the entire manual before you start the build. I think Vans manuals are the best out there.

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

The sooner builders transition from the manual to the plans, the happier they'll be.

Also, buy the "preview plans." All the plans are in there so if there's a drawing that's not included in the bundle you get with the kit, it'll be in the book.

[Bob Axsom]

Originally Posted by LettersFromFlyoverCountry

The sooner builders transition from the manual to the plans, the happier they'll be.

Also, buy the "preview plans." All the plans are in there so if there's a drawing that's not included in the bundle you get with the kit, it'll be in the book.

You're the Man Bob - Great aint it?

Bob Axsom

[Tom Martin]

I believe that you should simply use the length of rivet that the job requires. You will save yourself countless hours of searching manuals and plans if you just stick a rivet in look at it and make the go, no go decision. After building the tail you should be at a stage where you can make these basic riveting decisions. Often the plans call out for rivets are, in my opinion, just a suggestion and often call for a rivet that is too short. Get a guage, as someone else suggested, and forget looking for rivet lengths.

[Bob Axsom]

In my modification work on our RV-6A when one of my supply rivets runs low I reorder new rivets from Aircraft Spruce. I stock 3/32" and 1/8" flat heads and universal (round heads) 426 and 470s of #10 length (4 bins full of rivets). I bought a cheap rivet cutter with cut length adjustment tabs and I never have a rivet length problem.

By the way, back in my working days in aircraft production in the non flagged standard drawing notes there was an allowance to go up or down something like 3 sizes. The acceptance of the rivet installations were based on visual inspection of the installed rivets and not conformance to the pre-installed length. They did not go back and make drawing revisions for rivet callouts to accommodate tolerance buildups, etc.

Bob Axsom

[swixtt]

fun isn't it! it is part of the experience

Vans has really good plans i think. we are building a 9a and have found omissions in the info but for the most part it is all in there. if these things were super monkey easy to build then you'd see very few listed in the classified section. when that machine is flying you will be part of a fraternity that has very few members!
i am learning so much building this thing and feel great accomplishments when i come up against something that doesn't make sense and figure it out. causes me to slow down, yes but it also makes me think ahead and plan it out.

sure hope Smitty' doesn't bungle something during his build! ha. i read that page a lot