Nutplates/rivets/Vans Stupid Manual

s10sakota · #1 07-13-2012, 01:50 PM

I am on page 7-2 of Van's joke of a builder's manual. The third paragraph down has me rivet the K1000-4 nutplates to the forward spar side.

It also tells me to reference DWG 11. I can't find any info about the correct rivets to use anywhere in (what Vans calls) the manual or on any of the plans pages.

Do they assume that buy now the builder will determine the correct rivets to use? Do I need a secret code or do I need to pay more money to get building instructions?

I've built two previous airplanes and have screwed up many many parts because I 'thought' I knew what I was doing and didn't reference the manual often enough.

Now I've finally learned not to do that!

I want to physically read about the correct rivets to use and even though I can see what side of the spar to rivet the nutplates on by looking at others online build logs, for my piece of mind I want to see it on the plans somewhere.

Can someone please guide me on this step.

Thanks

pgroell · #2 07-13-2012, 02:12 PM

Having built that many planes you should by now be aware that rivets holding nutplates are there so that the nutplate does not turn while you are tightening the bolts.
So any rivet the correct diameter and long enough to form a nice shophead will be appropriate.
Some even use a pop rivet in hard to buck places.

By the way, the manual does not tell you to install the bolts going into those specific nutplates when you install the wings, and I understand from reading the VAF forums that those bolts tend to be forgotten during final assembly.

Have fun!!

Brantel · #3 07-13-2012, 02:25 PM

98% of the time when you think the info is not on the plans, you will be wrong.

Builder support at Van's most of the time will point you to where the info is at on the dwg.

Van's directions get progressively less informative. That is just the way it is.

Good luck!

randyintejas · #4 07-13-2012, 02:26 PM

The manual is bad and its get worse when you get to the fuselage kit. I try to skim over it at the beginning of a new section and try to catch the getcha?s but, other than that, I stick to the plans and scan other builder sites when I have a problem. This seems to work pretty well for me. It?s funny, I love plans but, I have to make myself read the instructions. Must be a guy thing.

SilverEagle2 · #5 07-13-2012, 02:26 PM

DWG 10A Upper right corner.

AN426AD3-6

s10sakota · #6 07-13-2012, 03:39 PM

Thanks guys. pgroel-I know I could try some rivets and find one that would work. But like I said, I'm really trying to build this airplane differently than I did the first two! I've had to re-order many parts and start over on the other ones because it's just my nature to have little patience! I would think I know how to do something, then do it, then find out I did it wrong because I didn't look at the manual

So I figure if I slow down and read everything I won't have to re-order (many) parts.

Ok, thanks again...back to work for me...

truflite · #7 07-13-2012, 03:44 PM

Mark,

I was at the Chapter 13 meeting when you and your friend gave your building presentations.

I offered my aluminum wing jigs to you as I am done with them. They are still here if you want them.

As for your wing "adventures", I went through the same thing. Feel free to email me or call me while most of the wing construction is still somewhat fresh in my noggin. I found myself pouring over any print that had to do with what I was working on, eventually, I found an answer. Also, use discretion if you think something is not right. I have found some rivet callouts too short or too long. Do what is best and **** the instructions.

Take care and fly safe,

Dave Nellis
7A Slider, close to rolling the canoe
Dues paid 6/12

truflite · #8 07-13-2012, 03:46 PM

Mark,

Forgot some info.

davidnellis57@gmail.com
(586)322-6131 cell

Dave

BSwayze · #9 07-13-2012, 04:32 PM

Mark,

Do you have a rivet gauge, like this one?

I learned a long time ago that the callouts in the plans and drawings are not always accurate. No matter what the plans say, I always measure to make sure I'm using the right rivets. It's not as critical for nutplates, since they aren't structural, but if you don't have one of these little tools, you'll soon find it to be indispensable in your work.

Good luck with your wing project!

OLDSAM · #10 07-14-2012, 07:30 PM

Mark,
At the right end of the spar detail at the top of drawing 10A, the rivets are called out, AN426AD3-6; it's also noted that you must countersink the front of the spar doubler plate to allow the rivet heads to be flush, and put the nut plates on the aft side. The heads must be truly flush so that the F704-G spacer bars (shown on Dwg 11) in the center section will fit flush to the spar web when the whole thing is assembled.

With the exception of a few dimensions being slightly off, my experience with the plans and directions complementing each other has been pretty positive, but so far I've only done the empennage and wings, just starting the fuselage.

You don't need to pay more money, but based on what you said about not referencing the manual ofter enough, maybe you need to take a little more time. Take it from an old guy.