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  #1  
Old 07-11-2012, 08:31 AM
LettersFromFlyoverCountry's Avatar
LettersFromFlyoverCountry LettersFromFlyoverCountry is offline
 
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Default Static checks and controlled airspace

I know there have been several threads about this but I've seen some conversations elsewhere that make the question pop up again.

Here's the question:

I had SteinAir do my transponder check. I did the pitot/static check myself.

Can I fly in Class B?
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St. Paul, MN.
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  #2  
Old 07-11-2012, 08:40 AM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LettersFromFlyoverCountry View Post
I know there have been several threads about this but I've seen some conversations elsewhere that make the question pop up again.

Here's the question:

I had SteinAir do my transponder check. I did the pitot/static check myself.

Can I fly in Class B?
Yes, there is no reqmnt for a "pitot-static" check (actually just a static check as there is no required pitot check) unless you fly IFR.
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Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
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  #3  
Old 07-11-2012, 08:42 AM
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LettersFromFlyoverCountry LettersFromFlyoverCountry is offline
 
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Many thanks, Walt.
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Bob Collins
St. Paul, MN.
Blog: Letters From Flyover Country
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  #4  
Old 07-11-2012, 08:47 AM
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Be sure to check paragraph (2) of your operating limitations.
Many inspectors restrict phase I flight testing operations to "outside of Class B airspace".
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  #5  
Old 07-11-2012, 11:14 AM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
Yes, there is no reqmnt for a "pitot-static" check (actually just a static check as there is no required pitot check) unless you fly IFR.
Doesn't this FAR say otherwise? ... or have I been wasting my $$ on 24 month VFR transponder checks?

Sec. 91.413

ATC transponder tests and inspections.

(a) No persons may use an ATC transponder that is specified in 91.215(a), 121.345(c), or Sec. 135.143(c) of this chapter unless, within the preceding 24 calendar months, the ATC transponder has been tested and inspected and found to comply with appendix F of part 43 of this chapter; and
(b) Following any installation or maintenance on an ATC transponder where data correspondence error could be introduced, the integrated system has been tested, inspected, and found to comply with paragraph (c), appendix E, of part 43 of this chapter.
(c) The tests and inspections specified in this section must be conducted by--
(1) A certificated repair station properly equipped to perform those functions and holding--
(i) A radio rating, Class III;
(ii) A limited radio rating appropriate to the make and model transponder to be tested;
(iii) A limited rating appropriate to the test to be performed;
[(iv) deleted]
(2) A holder of a continuous airworthiness maintenance program as provided in part 121 or Sec. 135.411(a)(2) of this chapter; or
(3) The manufacturer of the aircraft on which the transponder to be tested is installed, if the transponder was installed by that manufacturer.
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2012, 12:41 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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I think Gil is correct, the answer to the original question is no. FARs require an "operable" mode C in class B. But you cannot operate your transponder unless it has been tested for sending out the correct altitude. Since the altitude info comes from some source (EFIS?) in your aircraft I don't see how Stein could have done the data correspondance check unless he came to your aircraft.
There also has been a lot of discussion on the legal interpretation of "manufacturer" and whether or not we can do our own static checks even if we had the required equipment, which is expensive.
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  #7  
Old 07-11-2012, 12:54 PM
SteinAir SteinAir is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
I think Gil is correct, the answer to the original question is no. FARs require an "operable" mode C in class B. But you cannot operate your transponder unless it has been tested for sending out the correct altitude. Since the altitude info comes from some source (EFIS?) in your aircraft I don't see how Stein could have done the data correspondance check unless he came to your aircraft.
There also has been a lot of discussion on the legal interpretation of "manufacturer" and whether or not we can do our own static checks even if we had the required equipment, which is expensive.
I think you and Gil may have misunderstood what Bob meant and what Walt said. We indeed did do a transponder check at the aircraft, in the aircraft, etc.. which is what is required for VFR. What we did not do is a full Altimeter Pitot/Static system leak check which is required for IFR (same for certified planes).

Walt is right, no requirement for a pitot static IFR check in any airplane that isn't IFR...only a VFR txpdr check - two totally different things. One takes minutes, the other takes hours!

Regarding the test area, Bob's test area is indeed outside (actually a combination of under and outside) the MSP class B (which I think is what he meant by "in" class B), which is perfectly fine, and indeed he has his Txpdr check done so he can fly inside the 30 mi veil.

Cheers,
Stein

Last edited by SteinAir : 07-11-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-11-2012, 12:56 PM
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LettersFromFlyoverCountry LettersFromFlyoverCountry is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
Be sure to check paragraph (2) of your operating limitations.
Many inspectors restrict phase I flight testing operations to "outside of Class B airspace".
I'm not referencing phase one , and my test area is outside of the Class B area anyway.

Also, and I'm stealing this reference from another thread on this subject in which people wanted a definition of when you can fly without transponders.... WHY would you want to fly without a transponder? With my neat little Zaon PCX, it can't see you if your transponder isn't turned on. If it can't see you, I probably can't see you. Why would you want to use your transponder as a "cloaking device."?
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Bob Collins
St. Paul, MN.
Blog: Letters From Flyover Country
RV-12iS Powerplant kit
N612EF Builder log (EAA Builder log)
Last article: "Gonna Finish This Sucker" (Kitplanes)
Waiting for the avionics kit (backordered: chip shortage)

Last edited by LettersFromFlyoverCountry : 07-11-2012 at 12:59 PM.
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  #9  
Old 07-11-2012, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LettersFromFlyoverCountry View Post
I'm not referencing phase one , and my test area is outside of the Class B area anyway.
Sorry, I noticed in your signature, "Phase I flight testing underway", so I assumed that you were talking about that.
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  #10  
Old 07-11-2012, 01:23 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Stein, thanks for the clarification, you did go to the plane.
In the original post I was picturing some sort of bench test prior to shipment.

As to why people want to know about no-transponder operation, I can only guess that the answers run from "I don't want the FAA spying on me" to "I just wanted to know the rules in case the transponer fails, or I'm over due on its biennial", and everything in between.
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