Knocking Down Barriers to Training.

RVG8tor · #1 04-24-2012, 11:21 AM

How to make transition training available and affordable. In another thread we are discussing the need insurance companies place on getting Dual with a CFI before first flight insurance. Getting time in an RV in very important but the availability is tight an very expensive when only a CFI will do.

I can prove to the FAA that I built my airplane and can then get a repairman certificate for that aircraft. Why after flying my RV for some give number of hours say 100 can't I give transition training. If I can prove I was an instructor in another airplane then that would prove I know how to instruct perhaps going to the extent of a one time competency check. Some guys no doubt would want to charge for their time, I am not one of them, just share the operating costs and buy me a beer and we can call it good.

There is an obvious safety need for training before the first flight the amount depending on experience levels. This kind of program could be administered by the EAA much like the Flight Adviser Program, perhaps this was the original intent of the program. The FAA could approve what ever program devised by the EAA. This would greatly improve the availability of getting training which is one of the bigger barriers to getting the training in my opinion it would also make if affordable due to competition.

So how about a grass roots effort to start this program, anyone know who to contact at the EAA, perhaps this is in the works already.

Cheers.

Shotgun · #2 04-24-2012, 11:32 AM

If I understand correctly from a previous post you were a military instructor at one time...if you were you can get you CFI for $150 dollar written test. There is no longer a time limit on when you instructed in the military. I used the software from this website, test was easy.

http://www.sheppardair.com/MilCompCFI.htm

RVG8tor · #3 04-24-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shotgun

If I understand correctly from a previous post you were a military instructor at one time...if you were you can get you CFI for $150 dollar written test. There is no longer a time limit on when you instructed in the military. I used the software from this website, test was easy.

http://www.sheppardair.com/MilCompCFI.htm

Thanks for the info I will have to check into that but I still think we can make training more available without the need for a bunch of CFIs. After all where would the experimental market be if the Flight Adviser program was not started. It grew out of high accident rates, still voluntary but a good program. The FAA likes this program, if it reduces accident I think they would be more than happy with an EAA Transition Trainer Program.

Let us not forget that the FAA does not require me to get familiar with my RV-8A before I fly it, I have to get training with a CFI according to an Insurance agent not the FAA. Self insured I can just go fly then get insurance after I show them I have time in type. Big risk but legal.

Phlyan Pan · #4 04-24-2012, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVG8tor

The FAA could approve what ever program devised by the EAA. This would greatly improve the availability of getting training which is one of the bigger barriers to getting the training in my opinion it would also make if affordable due to competition.

So how about a grass roots effort to start this program, anyone know who to contact at the EAA, perhaps this is in the works already.

Cheers.

First off, I applaud your efforts to think outside the box and make flying more obtainable. It's definitely what we need more of if we want to see this dream we call general aviation succeed.

BUT...the FAA is not who you need to approve this. There is nothing illegal about what you're describing. As long as the person being transitioned is a legal PIC, I don't believe there is anything stopping you from doing this (other than the $ issue for those who want to get paid for it). What you need is for the insurance industry to accept this as bonefied training option and for them to see the value in it. That may be an easy sell...or it may end up being harder than trying to convince the FAA to put their stamp on the arrangment.

Either way, not trying to bust on your idea, just pointing out something that I think may steer you closer to the right direction in terms of applicability.

ChiefPilot · #5 04-24-2012, 01:32 PM

This is such a timely topic for me, as I'm getting to within a few months of flight. Thanks for bringing this up.

Frankly, I'm leaning towards no formal transition training and just being "self-insured" for the first five hours of flight. I've been up with friends in their RVs, and I have been keeping my flight skills current during the build process. I'd like to get transition training, but when the insurance companies are forcing those costs to be north of $300/hr (or more, in some cases), I don't see the value.

rocketbob · #6 04-24-2012, 01:59 PM

I am transition training a guy right now even though I'm not a CFI. The insurance company approved me to do it since I have a bit over 1300 hours in RV's. Of course I'm not being compensated for it. But its clear the insurance companies recognize the scarcity of qualified CFI's for RVs and its good they are allowing people like me to do this.

Tom Martin · #7 04-24-2012, 02:55 PM

Last year the insurance company stipulated that for hull coverage I had to fly the 25 hours off for the RV10 that belonged to a customer. After that I was not allowed to transition the owner. However I was allowed to transition a flight instructor who then checked out the owner. It seemed rather silly at the time but the flight instructor really did do a better job then I would have with the owner. That is their job, they do it all the time. This particular instructor has thousands of hours of instruction and many more hours of commercial work. Even though I have a lot of RV and rocket time I am not in his league when it comes to instruction. Five to ten hours of instruction time from a qualified instructor is not a lot of money compared to the investment in time and money that you have in your airplane. And, you are flying your own airplane while getting instruction, just what you have been working towards for that last number of years; flying your plane. How cool is it, to not only fly your own plane but at the same time learn how to do it properly.

Snowflake · #8 04-24-2012, 05:07 PM

If only there were a way to make transition training more like FAST training. Much less regulation, and much more enjoyable along the way.

RVG8tor · #9 04-24-2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketbob

I am transition training a guy right now even though I'm not a CFI. The insurance company approved me to do it since I have a bit over 1300 hours in RV's. Of course I'm not being compensated for it. But its clear the insurance companies recognize the scarcity of qualified CFI's for RVs and its good they are allowing people like me to do this.

This is good news, perhaps I can talk the insurance company into approving a non CFI for some RV familiarization after all.

frazitl · #10 04-25-2012, 10:51 AM

friend of mine who built and flies his 7A was approved by my insurance (thru EAA) to do my transition training. He was not a CFI, but trained other pilots in the Air Force. He of course had many thousands of hours in jets, and doing development flight testing in the Air Force. I had about 1600 Mooney hours at the time.

Just another data point.

Good luck!