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  #41  
Old 04-14-2012, 09:40 AM
CharlieWaffles's Avatar
CharlieWaffles CharlieWaffles is offline
 
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Quote:
I have a Bendix Retard mag on my IO-540, but there isn't any kind of centrifugal coupling or noise when turned. Are you confusing this with the rubber cushion coupling?
You would only hear the noise if you have a impulse coupled mag. The flywheel inside is what makes the noise. The Retard has no spark generator as it uses a Shower of Sparks to generate the current to spark.
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  #42  
Old 04-14-2012, 10:40 AM
aerhed aerhed is offline
 
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The retard would be open with no P-lead connected. You'd essentially have 2 non-impulse mags timed at 25. No, you wont hear coupling noise from the retard mag. That's how I found mine. I also thought I had an impulse mag on there and shortly before first run I went to show a customer what his coupling should sound like. No snap. Huh. Looked at the mag case and model number and thought: ****, there goes $600.
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  #43  
Old 04-15-2012, 08:57 AM
kbelue kbelue is offline
 
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Bill,
If you have retard breaker mags but don't want a Slickstart, make sure to connect the retard connection to the LR connection on the switch so the mag will be retarded during start. Otherwise it will kickback. I've used Slickstart on my retard mags for over 800 hrs and it works great, but i really want the 6 cylinder Pmags.

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  #44  
Old 04-15-2012, 09:29 AM
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Good info in SIL 648
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  #45  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:03 AM
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I have the ignition switch hooked up correctly for the mag. I think I am waiting for the new 6 cyl version and just see how badly it behaves
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  #46  
Old 04-17-2012, 05:57 PM
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smokyray smokyray is offline
 
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Default It's Electric...

Bill,
Mag issues aside, I'll add to the Electroair kudos. Three systems and 2500+ hours later I'm still happy. My IO540C4B5 in my HR2 ran wonderfully for 1000 hours with the crank trigger EI system. Both my 0-320's run great, my RV4 system approaching 2000 hours. Their new systems are even better.
Easy Hot starts, high altitude efficiency, cool running, better gas mileage, cheap spark plugs!
Need I say more?

V/R
Smokey

Www.electroair.net

Last edited by smokyray : 04-18-2012 at 07:58 AM.
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  #47  
Old 12-02-2012, 03:52 AM
Mike Robinson Mike Robinson is offline
 
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Location: Savannah Brunswick area
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Default Prism

It is November 2012.

I first heard of Gami Prism ignition in 2002.

Ten years ago.

I like the attributes listed especially what seems to be retarding spark if it senses detonation.

But it's been ten years.

I am putting together a IO-540-C4B5 with new cylinders. RSA10, Cold Air Induction, 6 into 1 exhaust, and 9.5:1 pistons. The pressure detonation sensor abilities sound great.

But is Prism on the back shelf now?

Below is their website I copy and pasted it here.
------------------------------

Pressure Reactive Intelligent Spark Management
At last, technology that will not only update our ignition systems to the 21st Century, but will go beyond the multi-sensor automobile style FADEC systems of the OEMs.

Using proprietary hardware and software developed by GAMI, the PRISM system continuously monitors and controls the cylinder combustion pressures for location relative to top dead center and for safeguarding the engine from detonation. This allows for the use of lower octane, unleaded fuels and improved performance at the same time. Certification is expected soon.

Read what Kitplanes had to say about GAMI's PRISM in this article on the future of AvGas.



Features:

•Optimized Spark Timing to achieve maximum brake torque.
•Simple: Fewer moving parts and a fiber optic design.
•Increased horsepower at all power settings.
•Smoother engine operation - reduces coefficient of variation of combustion - even on lean mixtures.
•More efficient engine operation - CDI produces larger spark at optimized time BTDC.
•Replaces both magnetos - no overhaul required prior to TBO.
•Fully redundant design - proven electronic durability with quad redundant ignition.
•Includes GAMI's Supplenator. Supplemental Alternator - back-up power to primary alternator and battery and GAMI's PDU Panel Display Unit.
•Automatic detection/prevention of detonation.
•Maintains lower peak cylinder pressures - reduced loads on power train components, longer engine life.
•Allows for the future use of lower octane, unleaded fuels.
•Champion� ignition components (spark plugs, wires, coils).
•Improved fuel economy- lower BSFCs than previously possible.
•Significantly lower EGTs/**** for reduced exhaust system maintenance.
•*Optional panel display of actual real-time horsepower and torque.
•*Optional digital tachometer.
•*Optional extensive on-board engine diagnostic capability.

http://www.gami.com/prism/prism.php

---------------------------

First time I heard about it in 2002 I paste below.

---------
cnsanford Posted: 9 Aug 2002 13:13
rated by 0 users One of the most exciting developments coming out of GAMI's engineering work on piston engines is the PRISM electronic ignition system.

The big takeaway from all of their work is the most important aspect of engine managment is the timing of the peak power pulse (PPP) in relation to the top-dead-center (TDC) event. Best mechanical advantage is provided by PPP at 15 degrees past TDC. This also provides cooler operation and eliminates detonation. But with the stoneage fixed timing systems on the engines, we are limited to shifting PPP timing by diddling the mixture, a very indirect and inefficient setup.

The principle of PRISM is so simple it is brilliant. Aided by new sensor technology, GAMI has instrumented the engines to directly sense in real time the cylinder head pressures, and then in a closed-loop control system vary the timing of the spark to place PPP at 15 past TDC. Their original goal was to allow turbocharged engines to run on unleaded gas. This they achieved, but it also results in cooler, higher power takeoffs for normally aspirated engines, and even protects from detonation if you get jet fuel mixed with your avgas. PRISM is still in final development and they are working with the FAA towards their certification.

GAMI has a partner company in ADA, Tornado Aley Turbos that makes add-on turbo kits for planes such as Bonanza's. We had a long discussion on the possibilty of turbonormalizing the SR22.

The bottom line was that if someone was willing to leave them an SR22 for 6 months, they could fit a turbonormalizer (with PRISM when approved). And subsequent installs could use the STC and would take about 4 weeks. There is plenty of room in the lower cowl, although they would probably build a new exhaust system. That would easily make this a 200kt airplane.

The fly in the ointment is weight and balance. The turbonormalizer would add 50-60pounds to the nose. That would certainly make the plane nose-heavy. We discussed ways to counteract that, such as adding an installed oxygen system to the tail, and moving BAT1 rearward. But you would still lose 60 pounds or so of useful load, and combined with the 20-50pounds of TKS, 20+ pounds of new avionics in the 2003, the plane is getting porky.

I asked how that was handled with Bonanza's. Apparently Bonanza's are tail-heavy to begin with, so the added weight up front is a plus. And there is an STC for tip-tanks for the Bonanza that adds 160 pounds of gross (sacrificing utility category to normal in the process).

Any gross weight increase on the SR22 would seem to be a big deal, since it would increase the already-near-limits stall speed, and require CAPS recertification etc.

So, I don't see a practical way to keep the utility of the SR22 with a turbonormalizer, much as I'd love one. Anyone have any ideas?

------------------------

All turbo normalizing asside...... I am just interested in the Prisim for electronic ignition, better advancement at top end for horsepower keeping in mind detonation and adjusting accordingly and easier start up due to the electronic ignition.

Last edited by Mike Robinson : 12-02-2012 at 03:59 AM.
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  #48  
Old 12-02-2012, 03:56 PM
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RV10inOz RV10inOz is offline
 
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PRSIM is definately not on the back burner. Mind you G100UL is the priority in Ada as best I can tell.

To use a system as effective as PRISM is requires a few things, and in the certified fleet a few things more! For a start electrical redundancy, and that along with clever and ultra reliable systems also have to be developed.

I have seen this in the GAMI/TAT lab only a few months ago.

As for the pressure sensing plugs, they are expensive, and not in production yet either and unless they have found a more durable sensor at a fair price from years ago, this also might be an issue being worked on. I have not asked that question of late.

So what does this mean for you?

For a start, G100UL is of far greater benefit to you, and all of us, so the priority George and Tim have is correct. Next is the IO540 if correctly set up will have minimal exposure to anything more than mild detonation. This is of course a great benefit of PRISM in particular with a turbocharged engine.

Advancing the spark timing is not going to give you HP gains, in fact it can lead to losses. These are fixed speed engines basically, so fixed timing works nicely. I have seen the net effect of advancing/retarding the timing with PRISM, and it wrks brilliantly. Theta PP stays where you want it all the time. Get a Turbo engine hot, switch to mogas and run not rich enough and it detonates like ****, switch on PRISM and in an instant all is good in the world. Not making quite the same power but not making a grenade either!

So, if you asked me directly, fit two mags!

I hope to be back there in early 2013, maybe some more things will be revealed.
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  #49  
Old 12-09-2012, 07:28 AM
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G3i Ignition G3i Ignition is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerhed View Post
No snap. Huh. Looked at the mag case and model number and thought: ****, there goes $600.
Years ago I made my own starting vibrators for a Bendix & Slick magneto?s for around $40.00. There?s no magic to these devices.
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  #50  
Old 12-12-2012, 07:37 AM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G3i Ignition View Post
Years ago I made my own starting vibrators for a Bendix & Slick magneto?s for around $40.00. There?s no magic to these devices.
So Tom, any chance we could convince you to whip up some starting vibrators for use with retard breaker mags and offer them for sale as a substitute for the SlickStart Module? Even if you charged 5 times what it used to cost you to make one it would be a bargain.
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