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  #1  
Old 03-06-2012, 10:13 PM
Ironflight's Avatar
Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Default ECI Cerminil Cylinder ? Service Life Experience?

The engine in the Valkyrie (my RV-8) was built in early 2005 out of all ECI components, and has been one of the smoothest running engines I have ever flown behind (others have remarked on that ? it?s not just me!). Smooth and powerful - but it has never had what I would call ?great? oil consumption ? the best being about 8 hours to the quart, the average being closer to 6.5 hrs/quart. While the engine has continued to run great, the past year has seen increased oil consumption and, more recently, decreasing compression. I finally decided to go ahead and pull the jugs and do at least a re-ringing job.

After discussions with several cylinder shops and engine builders, I decided to take the recommendations of some trusted guys, and go ahead and replace the jugs. The determining factor was the reluctance of shops to hone the nickel cylinders, and the fact that once a jug goes into the shop, it really needs to be checked out completely ? and with that many hours, it is pretty normal to need some valve and/or piston work ? things can add up quickly, and the price of new cylinders just isn?t that much. I decided to go straight to four new jugs.

Anyway, I am curious how others have done with their Cerminil cylinders. I expect that I might be near the high end of hours on a set, but would love to hear how many others have on theirs to date, and if they are still going strong ? or when they had to be replaced.

1450 hours on mine, and going to retire them.

Paul
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Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2012, 12:06 AM
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There is no nickel or chrome cylinder in existence that doesn't use oil. Its physically impossible due to the bore being too smooth. No hone pattern to retain oil to prevent the rings from hydroplaning. As they wear to be even more polished, the oil consumption goes higher. It is bothersome but if it were me I'd just live with it until TBO if its running well. There is always the chance that the new cylinders may not have been honed to ideal roughness and so you might end up spending a bunch of $$ and end up not much better than where you are now on oil consumption.
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N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
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  #3  
Old 03-07-2012, 06:31 AM
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That's good information Bob, and I appreciate you adding it - because I think a lot of folks don't know that the hard-plated cylinders do burn more oil. I am one that believes that if the engine is generally running well, leave it alone, so long as nothing is changing. In this particular case, the engine basically dropped off the cliff in a very short number of hours compressions dropped drastically, and oil consumption shot up....I flew it for 30 hours or so more, watching carefully to see if it was just an anomaly - it wasn't. Since I fly it on long trips and IFR, I decided it was finally time to address it. (Group A's that I have done the AD testing on BTW).

But what I really want to do with this thread is get actual hours in service that people have experienced with the ECI Cerminils. Has anyone gone 2,000 hours?

Paul
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RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
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Last edited by Ironflight : 03-07-2012 at 09:04 AM.
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  #4  
Old 03-07-2012, 08:45 AM
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Default ECI Titan Cylinders

I upgraded from Sentry to ECI Titan cylinders several years ago, now have about 500 hrs on them. I started out burning about 8 hrs/qt, then over about 50 hrs it went steadily up to 10, then 12, then 15, and now I get about 20 hrs/qt. Last compression check in February was 80/80, 80/80, 79/80, 80/80 done after flying it for an hour. For about the first 50 hrs I was unable to lean it to expected fuel flow numbers because of CHT, but now I can get what I normally expect.

I ran it hard for first 10 hours to ensure good break in.
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  #5  
Old 03-07-2012, 08:55 AM
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I'm not a high time user with only 350 hours on my bird, but my ECI engine goes 20hrs/qt. There is one other ECI engine on the field that I am aware of. That engine is higher time than mine and uses less oil. I'm interested to see the results of this as well. My compression is 79/80 on all cylinders warm, and 77-78/80 cold.

Guy
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2012, 09:05 AM
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Thanks Stu and Guy - do you know if your cylinders are Cerminil's or not? ECI has made several different types of bores.
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RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
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  #7  
Old 03-07-2012, 09:23 AM
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Also knowing what rings were used is another variable that has to be considered. ECI rings have a moly face on the top two rings and they have an altogether different shape than do Superior and Lycoming piston rings.
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N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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  #8  
Old 03-07-2012, 10:11 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketbob View Post
Also knowing what rings were used is another variable that has to be considered. ECI rings have a moly face on the top two rings and they have an altogether different shape than do Superior and Lycoming piston rings.
True - let's assume that the engines were assembled with the correct parts.

I'll be totally open - when I had my engien built, the Cerminils were fairly new. Because I have been flying 250 hours a year (or so), I have put a lot of time on in a short period. I'm just wondering if anyone has gotten MORE than 1500 hours on a set of Cerminils, or if I'm just reaching out beyond the experience base.
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Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2012, 11:09 AM
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CPSONE CPSONE is offline
 
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Default rings for cerminil

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketbob View Post
Also knowing what rings were used is another variable that has to be considered. ECI rings have a moly face on the top two rings and they have an altogether different shape than do Superior and Lycoming piston rings.
Ditto...Make sure you use the ECI recommended rings for the cermilil cylinders. See my post on broken rings here. My engine shop which I will never use ever again put the wrong rings in. Result low compression on one cylinder (one broken ring) and 0 compression on another cylinder (both compression rings broken). (btw I had all other cylinders removed and re-ringed)
They run smooth as silk though.
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2012, 11:34 AM
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Spelled out here: http://www.eci.aero/pdf/94-4-1.pdf

So it is prudent to know when comparing Titan cerminil cylinder service history which ring sets were used; CC201 or CC202. There's a big difference between the two sets specified for Cerminil cylinders.
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N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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