VFR to IFR upgrade

[moll780]

Im beginning to research upgrading my VFR -9A to IFR and was wondering what people recommend and what path to take.

I'd like to keep it minimal and the type of conditions I would potentially get into would also be minimal (famous last words??).
I wouldn't intentionally fly into any serious IFR but would use my IFR certificated -9A to obtain my rating and give me that little extra piece of mind when flying out of MVFR conditions, hence the minimum instrumentation.

I've got a 696, a single Icom A200 (no nav) and basically standard six pack either via round gauges or via the d10.

So no redundancy unless required, whether smart or not, at this point im looking at only gathering information and determining equipment and budget. Once the minimum is determined I will then deal with redundancies.

thoughts?

[RVbySDI]

Well, you have just described me and my situation pretty closely. Basically the only differences are in our panels. Otherwise, I have the same goals and plans for using my 9A for instrument training.

My panel is a little different but I also do not have IFR navigation and am looking to upgrade so that I do. My panel has dual GRT HX with dual AHRS and synthetic vision. I have a panel mounted 695 (without Wx), Garmin SL-40 comm, GTX327 transponder, TT VSGV autopilot, Zaon XRX traffic, PM3000 intercom.

After quite of bit of discussion with Stein at SteinAir, Carlos at GRT, my flight instructor who runs the local flight school, and various others from this forum I believe I have decided I can replace the SL40 with an SL30 nav/comm radio and have everything I need to be legal and to adequately start training in my airplane. This setup will allow me to train in the IFR environment with just about everything needed except an IFR certified RAIM GPS or marker beacons. I would like to have a certified GPS but that will not happen without a great amount of reworking my panel. Something I am not able or willing to do at this time. The marker beacons would also be gravy but I don't see them as a necessity given the level of flying I will be doing.

I actually made provisions for upgrading the SL40 to the SL30 when I designed and built the panel. So after 1.5 years of flying VFR it looks like I will be making this upgrade in the near future. My experience is that if anyone is still building and thinking about future upgrades to an IFR panel, seriously consider your ability to upgrade. If you can do so, prepare your panel so that you will have opportunity to make the changes necessary efficiently when the time comes. I partially did this by allowing for the upgrade for the SL30 but I did not make provisions for upgrading to any type of certified GPS without a complete panel redesign. I now wish I had room for an easy upgrade to a certified GPS. If I had considered this in addition to the SL30 I would be ready to go now. Instead I am facing compromises I can live with but deep down wish I didn't have to make.

Just a data point from someone experiencing a similar situation.

[trib]

Checkout the Valcom INS 430. It gives you an ILS or VOR as appropriate (can only use one at a time, but can flip back and forth with the standby feaure), and marker beacons. Everything is self contained in one unit, including the nav radio. It's by far the best bargain I've seen. I have a VOR from the original panel in my plane and added this unit and have been very happy with it. It is very well constructed.

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by RVbySDI

Well, you have just described me and my situation pretty closely.

Me too.

Originally Posted by RVbySDI

My panel has dual GRT HX with dual AHRS and synthetic vision. I have a panel mounted 695 (without Wx), Garmin SL-40 comm, GTX327 transponder, TT VSGV autopilot, Zaon XRX traffic, PM3000 intercom.

Me too, except the Zaon, and a different brand of intercom, and GPS.

Originally Posted by RVbySDI

After quite of bit of discussion with Stein at SteinAir, Carlos at GRT,---I believe I have decided I can replace the SL40 with an SL30 nav/comm radio and have everything I need to be legal and to adequately start training in my airplane.

Yep, had the same discussions, but I am adding the SL 30 and keeping the SL 40 as a backup COM.

Originally Posted by RVbySDI

This setup will allow me to train in the IFR environment with just about everything needed except an IFR certified RAIM GPS or marker beacons.

Yet again, Me Too

Originally Posted by RVbySDI

My experience is that if anyone is still building and thinking about future upgrades to an IFR panel, seriously consider your ability to upgrade.

Just a data point from someone experiencing a similar situation.

Totally agree.

[rleffler]

You're going to get inudated with opinions on the subject, starting off with what ever avionics are in their panel and justification for why they made the decision.

You'll get opinions from folks that state there is no such thing a "ifr-lite" and either you are ifr or not.

You get opinions from folks that have multiple redundancies built into their panel.

The problem is that their decisions are right for them. The question is what is right for you.

The bottom line is you'll need the appropriate equipment to fly the approaches that are available at the airports you fly into, as well as enroute airways.

If money is no object, a good GPS is the best bet, like a GTN-650. If you want to save a little, see if you can pick up a used GNS-430W. These will provide the enroute navigation, VOR and ILS, as well as overlays for multiple approaches.

You can add a nav radio if all you need is a VOR. Then you need to look at units that may be able to display indicators from two VORs, such as the SL-30.

If your budget is extremely tight, there are plenty of good deals on NDB radios, but you'll be extremely limited on where you can go and do. Just kidding.....

So to not to drag this out too much further, determine your requirements first, then shop for the equipment that meets those requirements. If you aren't already IFR rated, go grab an instructor, rent a plane, and go fly some approaches with the CFII. That will give you some idea of understanding what you may not already know.

In summary:

1. What approaches do you need to fly? ILS, VOR, GPS, NDB?
2. How are going to travel enroute? VOR, GPS ?
3. Do you need more than one to fly the approach? i.e 2 VORs
4. What other equipment do you need? GPS overlay or DME?
5. What type of back up systems do you need to allow you and your spouse to sleep at night? You should have a plan of attack if any single component fails and how you should handle that situation.

bob

[jbagley]

I was down at Val Avionics a few weeks ago talking to them about the INS 429 and their new nav 2000. The NAV 2000 is basically the same form factor as their COM 2000 and priced at $995. It's months away? Sounds like the hardware is done and they are working on software. Should be able to drive a VOR and ILS indicator on your EFIS. It's roughly the same functionality as the INS 429 unit in a different form factor without the built-in VOR w/glideslope indicator.

There's also been a rumor that MGL is working on a nav radio.

[turbo]

1, auto pilot

2, 2 comms

3, 430 or similar unit with CDI indicator.

4, go out and have fun flying thru some puffys!

[moll780]

The VAL INS 429 looks like it would be one complete unit with taking GPS information from my 696 or an sl30

So once I get some equipment installed is there a certification process that the aircraft needs to go through with the FSDO or an IA?

Originally Posted by jbagley

I was down at Val Avionics a few weeks ago talking to them about the INS 429 and their new nav 2000. The NAV 2000 is basically the same form factor as their COM 2000 and priced at $995. It's months away? Sounds like the hardware is done and they are working on software. Should be able to drive a VOR and ILS indicator on your EFIS. It's roughly the same functionality as the INS 429 unit in a different form factor without the built-in VOR w/glideslope indicator.

There's also been a rumor that MGL is working on a nav radio.

[SteinAir]

Originally Posted by moll780

The VAL INS 429 looks like it would be one complete unit with taking GPS information from my 696 or an sl30

So once I get some equipment installed is there a certification process that the aircraft needs to go through with the FSDO or an IA?

Most likely NO. Most (not all) Operating Limitations simply state that for IFR flight you must have the appropritate instrumentation instaleld per FAR 91.xxx

Also note you should have an up to date full IFR Pitot/Static check completed (over the more minimal VFR transponder check). As a whole, put in the appropriate instruments, get the pitot/static done, do the appropriate "post install check-outs" for each piece of equipment per their install manuals and you should be good to go. Don't forget about noting the equipment changes/additions/removals and any associated W&B (which should be able to just be calucluated based on weighing the instruments and using the appropriate arms).

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein

[Dan B]

I would suggest you consider the requirements in the FAA Instrument Rating Pratical Test Standards (PTS) when considering basic IFR equipage. You will need minimum equippage for your instrument check ride. Note on page 7 the aircraft and equipment requirements.
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/...-s-8081-4e.pdf

Also, the FAA is proposing a draw down of VORs, especially east of the Rockies by 2020. This includes replacing the VOR supported victor airways with "T" routes (GPS) east of the Mississippi by 2020. You may also note on IFR enroute charts that there may be a GPS MEA (min enroute altitude) lower than the MEA using VOR. As the VORs have aged, their signal strength sometimes degrade. Funding to replace the VORs does appear to be forthcoming.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011...2011-31451.pdf

There are about 1220 civil ILSs in the NAS.
You can see how many RNAV (GPS) procedures there are at:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...ss/approaches/

After many years of being involved with maintenance of navigation systems in the national airspace system , I chose to equip my RV9 with RNAV WAAS avionics only.