VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:55 AM
RV7AV8R's Avatar
RV7AV8R RV7AV8R is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 426
Default I like the fine tuning of manual

I like being able to turn the knob in very tiny increments to get the manual trim just right. Having said this I have never flown with electric but visualize it being like my car window, where I can not finely adjust it. I am sure you can slow electric down but do you have a two position switch in order to have fine and course trim?
__________________
John Adams
Seattle
RV7 600+hrs
Paid 12/2014
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:01 AM
L.Adamson's Avatar
L.Adamson L.Adamson is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7AV8R View Post
I like being able to turn the knob in very tiny increments to get the manual trim just right. Having said this I have never flown with electric but visualize it being like my car window, where I can not finely adjust it. I am sure you can slow electric down but do you have a two position switch in order to have fine and course trim?
It's been said by others..........that my aircraft was one of the finest trimming RV's out there. It would fly in perfect balance. I was proud, considering it was a 6, I built on a jig for straightness, as the fuse isn't prepunched. It used electric servo trim for both elevator and aileron, with no speed control. Hat switch on the joystick.

L.Adamson
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:08 AM
turbo's Avatar
turbo turbo is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Stuart, FL /Hartford, CT/Virgin Gorda,BVI
Posts: 3,122
Default

better yet, auto electric trim. put a gizmo in the system and never trim again when using the auto pilot. wonder if you could get it to work without the AP? might as well use some of those electrons.
__________________
TURBO YES =VAF= Payed Jan2019
Ed D'Arcy
RV6-A 5,200+ hrs, R-44 1,600 hrs, Helicycle 320 hrs, gyro sold,35,000 miles flown in 2015
Stuart, Fl / S WINDSOR,Ct / Virgin Gorda, BVI - under major repair from hurricane damage
VAF #840 EAA AOPA FAC FABA QB SPA
addicted pickle ball player
https://i.postimg.cc/tn3h4svg/IMG-3101.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-01-2012, 11:33 AM
longranger's Avatar
longranger longranger is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 45G, Brighton, MI
Posts: 1,867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick6a View Post
By way of direct comparison, the total installed weight of an electric trim system is approximately 7-8 ounces. Do the math and then decide if you comfortable with a manual trim system that is at least 5X heavier than electric. ...
Thanks, Rick. I was having trouble with Van's claim of "Weight comparable to standard manual installation." as stated in the RV-7/7A order form. When I received the emp kit a couple of weeks ago, I was really surprised to find that the contents of the electric trim kit "feels" lighter that the box it comes in. That is as it should be, seeing as how it is installed IN the elevator.

Having flown a 1955 C-170B for the last 29 years, I'm very comfortable with manual systems, but I opted for electric trim for my 7, as the installation seems much more straightforward, and installation of a speed control or an autopilot with auto trim should handle the speed issue. Even though I'm an EE I've always harbored a distrust in the reliabiliy of things electrical, but it seems the Ray Allen trim system has been giving folks statisfactory service.

I'm still on the fence with the electric vs. manual flaps because with manual, you can put them WHERE you want them WHEN you want them. I'll probably go with electric in the end as that appears to be the only option for the 7 without rolling my own system..

OT Warning!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick6a View Post
VAF members have reported that Van's chooses to install electric trim in its own factory built airplanes. Why is this so? If actions speak louder than words, Van's clear preference for electric does not exactly shout a ringing endorsement for the virtues of its manual trim system. ...
By the same token, Van's seems to have a preference for tip up canopies.
__________________
Miles (VAF# 1238, Paid up as of 2018)
RV-7 TU 904KM (reserved)
Wings Fitted and Finish Kit on site

Construction Log
Picasa: Empennage Album, Wings Album, Fuselage Album

1955 Cessna 170B flying since 1982

'To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did.' -Unk.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-01-2012, 12:10 PM
L.Adamson's Avatar
L.Adamson L.Adamson is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by longranger View Post
I'm still on the fence with the electric vs. manual flaps because with manual, you can put them WHERE you want them WHEN you want them. I'll probably go with electric in the end as that appears to be the only option for the 7 without rolling my own system..
All depends on how fat the passenger is, and how chummy you want to be... In some cases, that flap handle could be awful hard to reach!

Besides, that's where I kept my bottled water.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-01-2012, 03:22 PM
Rick6a's Avatar
Rick6a Rick6a is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lake St. Louis, MO.
Posts: 2,346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by longranger View Post
......I'm still on the fence with the electric vs. manual flaps because with manual, you can put them WHERE you want them WHEN you want them.....
WARNING. THREAD DRIFT ALERT!

Miles,

Before you jump off that fence and finally make a flap system purchasing decision, make it a truly informed purchasing decision. I sense you may not be fully aware of the possibilities available to you. In that spirit, I feel that I must comment on your WHERE and WHEN assumptions regarding the real or imagined operational advantages of a manual flap system compared against a popular alternative...electric flaps.

By design, manual flaps only offer a few fixed settings, commonly established by the builder to be 10º, 20º, 30º and 40º and a big honking space wasting flap handle to accomodate manual flap operation. A tried and true manual flap system, there is no denying that it works well enough to satisfy the needs and desires of many, many pilots. I sometimes wonder how many old school RV8 pilots would opt for manual flaps if they had the choice. Alternatively, by sporting electric flap operation, I effortlessly manipulate the momentary flap toggle switch positioned atop the Infinity stick grip and enjoy the satisfaction of knowing that unlike manual operation, I can deploy a truly infinite range of flap settings from 0º thru 40º. If I so choose to deploy 13¾º of flaps, I can do just that. Does manual flap operation give the pilot any ability to crank in 27½º or 34¼º of flap deployment? The answer to that is not just no but heck no.

It has been commented before....yet I have no first hand knowledge that the occasional formation pilot has been known to take advantage of that infinite flap setting capability to make slight adjustments (1º or 2º) to more easily maintain formation flight. Whether that is true or not, what I do know for sure is that I have found when practicing touch and gos or doing an unexpected go-around, it is very convenient without removing my hand from the joystick grip to retract the flaps to any degree I want, WHEN I want. By keeping a firm grip on the joystick at all times, specifically NOT having to reach for a panel mounted electric flap switch or a floor located manual flap handle, my full attention to the task at hand need not be even slightly diverted. I feel my preference (electric flaps with grip mounted momentary toggle) is a good and safe arrangement all around but of course mine is a highly personal choice, the type of decision each builder has to decide for himself.
__________________
Rick Galati
RV6A N307R"Darla!"
RV-8 N308R "LuLu"
EAA Technical Counselor

Last edited by Rick6a : 01-01-2012 at 05:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-04-2012, 06:53 AM
WingsOnWheels WingsOnWheels is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 2,089
Default

Back on the trim topic

I like manual trim and think of it as a backup control for the elevator. I had planned from the outset to have manual trim in my 6A. Now that I have most of it built and have been working to best fit my 6'4" frame, I need all the knee room I can spare. I recently made the decision to go with electric trim. The only other option I saw was to buy a longer (and heavier) cable I could route all the way up to the panel and put next to the throttle, mixture.

I have the spring bias aileron trim, but I will likely put in a servo to operate that as well. If you are going to go, go all the way..haha
__________________
Colin P.
RV-6A #20603
Complete 5/10/19
PP SEL / A&P
I donate every year on my B-Day (in Dec), but donated early in Sep'19.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-04-2012, 07:12 AM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
Default

Electric trim can run away. Manual trim will not.

Most modern airplanes have electric trim because is is convenient and cheaper to install. Most modern airplanes have run away protection of some sort. Be aware, with the RV's there is no run away protection except hit the switch in the opposite direction.
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2019 This place is worth it!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-04-2012, 07:24 AM
L.Adamson's Avatar
L.Adamson L.Adamson is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
Electric trim can run away. Manual trim will not.

Most modern airplanes have electric trim because is is convenient and cheaper to install. Most modern airplanes have run away protection of some sort. Be aware, with the RV's there is no run away protection except hit the switch in the opposite direction.
Or have a little switch right above the throttle that kills the trim power. I did. It had a red enclosure around it. Supposeable purpose, is if the passenger/pilot gets carried away with trim. Besides, RV's have been tested with full trim, and not too tough to overcome. Cable trim also get's slop.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-04-2012, 07:30 AM
schristo@mac.com's Avatar
schristo@mac.com schristo@mac.com is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: WA
Posts: 988
Default runaway protection...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
Electric trim can run away. Manual trim will not.

Most modern airplanes have electric trim because is is convenient and cheaper to install. Most modern airplanes have run away protection of some sort. Be aware, with the RV's there is no run away protection except hit the switch in the opposite direction.
The Vertical Power electrical management solutions all have trim control and runaway protection built in... hard to conceive of a better system than trim on the stick.
__________________
Stephen

RV7 powered by a lycoming thunderbolt IO-390
turning a whirlwind HRT prop

with more hours flying than building... 2,430 on the hobbs!
ORCA Flight
Race 771
margarita!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:28 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.