How short a runway can you land on?

[JohnBabrick]

Hello all,

I have just purchased a new house in Michigan. We will have seven acres and the lot dimensions are such that I would have about an 800 foot stretch that I could conceivably put a landing strip on. Further, I *might* be able to get the neighbor farmer to rent me a strip of his land that would allow me another few hundred feet. My question is, how much land do I need to take off and land an RV-7A?

Some additional information: I am a low time new pilot. I will get transition training before flying. I will be doing all the flight testing from a regular airport and would not be attempting any such short landings or take offs until I had plenty of experience. I plan on putting a 200 hp engine and a constant speed prop on the airplane. The proposed strip has some tall trees around it in some directions, but is otherwise surrounded by a golf course and farm fields. Directly beyond the trees are driving ranges that are lined up with the runway, so an engine out would involve flying straight ahead for open fields.

I didn't buy the house expecting to use it as a runway, but if I could then I'd like to know about how practical it might or might not be.

Opinions and advice please?

John Babrick
RV-7A QB (empennage)
Shelbyville MI

[Mike S]

If my memory is correct, Van used to fly out of a strip at his place that was 600'. long, and designed his a/c to be usable there.

Winds, and obstructions must be taken into account though, not just length.

Hope this helps to answer your question.

Mike

[mark manda]

Very few times I've been able to land and exit at the 500ft. mark. on a paved runway.

I'd burn up all that 800 ft. if it were me. I seem to normally like 1000ft. to 1300ft. to land. I'd want a 1300ft. runway min., personally.

Taking off--- I'd say 700ft. is comfortable.

YMMV skill level etc.


Build that runway!!!

[casper]

Originally Posted by JohnBabrick

Hello all,

I have just purchased a new house in Michigan. We will have seven acres and the lot dimensions are such that I would have about an 800 foot stretch that I could conceivably put a landing strip on. Further, I *might* be able to get the neighbor farmer to rent me a strip of his land that would allow me another few hundred feet. My question is, how much land do I need to take off and land an RV-7A?

Some additional information: I am a low time new pilot. I will get transition training before flying. I will be doing all the flight testing from a regular airport and would not be attempting any such short landings or take offs until I had plenty of experience. I plan on putting a 200 hp engine and a constant speed prop on the airplane. The proposed strip has some tall trees around it in some directions, but is otherwise surrounded by a golf course and farm fields. Directly beyond the trees are driving ranges that are lined up with the runway, so an engine out would involve flying straight ahead for open fields.

I didn't buy the house expecting to use it as a runway, but if I could then I'd like to know about how practical it might or might not be.

Opinions and advice please?

John Babrick
RV-7A QB (empennage)
Shelbyville MI

I don't know what the laws are like in michigan but in Kansas you would need to get legal permission to use a private strip. I have a 1,000 Ft strip at my house and it is not legal. I have a 7A 180 C/S and I can get in and out easy. I just use it when I need to do maintenance.

[Mel]

My strip is 1500' packed white rock with clear approaches. In Texas in the summer time, I would not want any shorter. Density altitude and a cross wind make things interesting. You can see a picture on AirNav.com (8TA5).

[Steve Sampson]

John - if you only have 800' and low experience I would not do it unless everything else is in your favour. If you do go ahead, practice elsewhere 'til you are really confident.

I fly out of 1020' and have been flying a Supercub and a -9A there. Everyone reads the specs and says it must be easy. The problem is its not perfect, its the real world; crosswind, tailwind, turbulence, wet grass etc etc etc. Bad days I sometimes use about 750'. So I have always had 250' to spare. True, but I do not have the stomach for coming to a halt with the spinner 10' from the fence. Very few friends have visited twice!

I have chosen to build a -4 for a number of reasons. The -7 carries just a bit more energy on landing and to me its too much. You can take a look at my strip at

http://gikonwhy4.blogspot.com/

It is a blog I have started to develop since I have just bought a digital camera to record my build. It is not ready for release yet, lots of testing and work in progress but the bit I have done might just interest you.

Good luck, Steve.

[gmcjetpilot]

Does the strip favor prevailing winds?
Are there obstacles right off departure and approach?
What's the surface like: gravel, dirt, grass, soft / hard pack?
Many variables. Does your insurance care?

If I was just flying around and saw a 800 ft strip I would have major caution, even though with a little head wind I routinely land and get off turn off in 800 ft (no obstacles near threshold and asphault). Take off? Depends on weight and DA (temp/Alt). If two up, hot I would probably not consider going into a 800 ft strip unless I was real familiar and had good reasons to go to that strip. Solo, cool, no obstacles, firm dry reasonably smooth surface, sure.

One I learned about flying story: Taking off a grass strip (Van's) it took way longer than expected. It was a little hot, two up, some bags but it was just doggy. When I got home, pushing the plane into the hanger the brakes where dragging badly! Well if you let the pads get too thin this can happen. The pucks extend too far get cockeyed in the caliper and stick. Now when I check brake pads, if I even go hummmm, it does not look that bad......may be I can go another X hours or 4 months, I just change them. It's not worth dragging brakes. The embarrassing thing was I just checked them during a condition inspection a month before and thought they where good. Even more embarrassing was my A&P/AI friend saw them and casually mentioned, I should change them now, not later even if they have a little more life. The point, short fields have less margins. Things can go awry and they are not always in your direct control.

From a RVator story I recall, Van made an off field landing flying a RV off his grass strip in Oregon. His brother Jerry who just happened to be there, suggested Van takeoff in the other direction for a better departure path. That turned out to be a good move, since Van lost power after takeoff. The direction Jerry suggested allowed the successful forced landing. The original choice would not have given as good an option. It's your plane; your the PIC. Know thy self. Just because Van did it does not mean I would do it. Van is a very sharp pilot and he has way more RV time than I do. I have my margins, which are probably not the same as Van's or your's. Anyway congrats on the new property.

BTW 200 HP is not necessarily need. A constant speed prop is a good choice, it's my choice for my RV-7 (O360/Hartzell). Although it all helps, its not necessarily needed to get into and out of 800 ft. I assume you are near sea level?

(One complaint about Van's t/o and Ldg numbers? They give HP and weight, solo/gross but nothing else. I assume it's asphalt and constant speed prop? Anyone know? Any one do real takeoff and landing performance testing on their RV? I would suggest that Van's numbers are like those of any manufacture, ideal, done with a new plane by a test pilot ready to exercise max performance envelope.)

[gbrasch]

Originally Posted by Mel

My strip is 1500' packed white rock with clear approaches. In Texas in the summer time, I would not want any shorter. Density altitude and a cross wind make things interesting. You can see a picture on AirNav.com (8TA5).

Nice Airport Mel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mel]

Thanks,
I need to rephrase; That is a railroad at the south end. If there is a train, then the approach to 35 is NOT totally clear. But you can see a couple of miles down the track from the air. Part of the pre-landing check.

[N674P]

If it were me, I would find an instructor I trust with an RV-7A(C/S) and lots of experience in this sort of field to come look it over. If that goes well, let him/her fly into it a few times. If they felt comfortable with it, I would get dual with them until I felt comfortable with it.
I too am a low time pilot, and that's the way I'm going to play it before I fly from the strip I practically live on. Even though the planes that use it look like they have way more room than they need, It's a one way strip with high tension towers/wires at the departure end.
The only sort of similar experience I've had with this was flying a 65hp Champ into the grass field I was soaring from. No problem - Citabrias pulled gliders out of there, and could have landed two or three times in the distance available. And I probably had 60-70 hours in my logbook, and 25-30 landings in a Champ, all on grass.
Well, I landed just a little long, just a little hot, and with weak heel brakes. That fence came up real fast, and even though I stopped 80-100ft short, it scared the bejesus out of me - not what I was expecting!
No harm, no foul, and nobody saw (field closed for the day), but I've been far less cavalier about my capabilities since then.