Flight planning western US

[pvalovich]

I fly out of Inyokern (IYK) next to the China Lake and Edwards ranges. I've never had trouble getting flight following - going east or west.

Many of the restricted areas become cold at various times - but some do not. Center was always aware - and cleared me through when inactive.

I try to maintain at least 2000' AGL enroute, changing altitude IAW VFR course rules. In some parts of NM, AZ, NV and UT you will not have either radar or radio coverage at 2000' AGL.

I'll go through MOAs - even active ones, usually low. Full blown ACM furballs have a hard deck at 5K AGL. Anything besides ACM I figure there is a good chance they'll pick up my non-stealthy -8A on radar. Still waiting for some fighter jock to do a close aboard beak to beak "investigative pass" so I can do a 5g -8A bat turn and point my nose at him to at least let him know I know he's there. If he stays level and turns I'll always be inside him - until he extends and positions for a face shot.

[TomVal]

Originally Posted by DAGO

Below is a more recent example of a near mid-air in a MOA. The T-38 is on a practice bomb run. IAS is approximately 360 kts. At the moment they are attempting to visually identify the bomb range. Their total attention is focused between locating the target outside and the HUD target steering information inside. They are too busy to be in a “see and avoid” mode. The wx is CAVOK. ATC failed to call out the conflicting traffic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLVtstYAZLY

Be careful out there.

Regards,

A controller's comments wrt the youtube link above...

"I work at Vance AFB. We protect the MOAs from IFR traffic, via altitude seperation by having the civilian traffic at a specific alt. or by caping the pilot in the MOA at a certain alt. VFR traffic we could care less about we have alot else going on, we advise you that your entering a MOA and give you the working Alt's if you want to go in it your choice. Were not going to provide any seperation or even try."

Be careful out there!

Regards,

[philip_g]

without looking at a map BLD BTY SMX should miss all the restricted and avoid Las. MMM then to DAG sounds a little bit of a dog leg. Or stay north ILC OAL SMX.

[John Clark]

Originally Posted by philip_g

without looking at a map BLD BTY SMX should miss all the restricted and avoid Las. MMM then to DAG sounds a little bit of a dog leg. Or stay north ILC OAL SMX.

Might want to rethink that suggestion. R-2505 and the LAS Class B are issues.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

[philip_g]

Originally Posted by John Clark

Might want to rethink that suggestion. R-2505 and the LAS Class B are issues.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

Climb above the bravo or skirt the ring. All of those routes are used by jet traffic thousands of times a day so..... should not put you into anything you can't top.
HEC PMD would snake through as well.

[Ron Lee]

Originally Posted by DAGO

VFR traffic we could care less about we have alot else going on, we advise you that your entering a MOA and give you the working Alt's if you want to go in it your choice. Were not going to provide any seperation or even try.

That sounds real cooperative. NOT!

[sailvi767]

There is no real way for ATC to provide traffic advisories in a hot MOA. Most of the aircraft will not even have a transponder on. They more then likely will be engaged in rapid heading and altitude changes. We often ran in at 500 feet agl only to zoom climb to 20K in a few seconds. The advice about the hard deck is actually good for most MOA's. There are however exceptions with lots of low altitude high speed turning and burning. The Fallon NV MOA's and Nellis MOA's would be a example of the above and I would avoid them anytime they are hot. You really don't want to get caught in the middle of a 24 plane strike package doing 540 knots.

George