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08-23-2011, 09:17 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 374
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Low Pass
I must admit I have done a "high speed, high G" pull out...Luckily I fly a Bell 206 so pulling about 1.8 G up from 100 kts never impresses anyone but those in the aircraft!
Done it in an H-60 also...just a little more fun with 160 kts and pull, got more than 6000 FPM (for a handfull of seconds)...Still never impressed anyone on the ground (wasn't my intention...no one looked, they didn't care).
Now we have a very annoying neighbor who calls the base repeatedly to say our helicopters THOUSANDS (literally) of feet above spook her horses so we have a huge no fly from surface to unlimited for her.
I have personally heard from numerous people at airshows thanking us (or others) for the inverted turn at low altitude into the show (Like I said, flying a bell 206...trust me, no inversion happened!). Even semi-experienced "observers" can get it wrong.
I will paraphrase something I read a while back. "If you absolutely have to do it, do it once and get the **** out of there. No one gets a side number or even an accurate description on the first pass"
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08-24-2011, 07:51 AM
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Guest
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 613
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Look out for mast bumping after you nose over from that pull up in the 206!!! 
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08-24-2011, 11:40 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 557
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It's been kind of hinted at, but not really spelled out here, so I'm posting this just for the reference (plus a little editorial comment after). My understanding is that aside from the "careless and reckless", the other low pass violation is for 91.119 (para (b) and (d) omitted):
Quote:
Sec. 91.119 ? Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
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It's pretty hard to abide by 91.119(a) at 100' and 200 kts if your engine fails. Vref, and maybe you can put it down by the end of the runway.
I've heard that the low pass suggested by the authorities to assess the landing surface is part of the "Except when necessary for takeoff or landing."
Not sure about the case law or precedent, but if I were standing in front of the judge, it'd be a lot easier to say I was evaluating the landing surface at a speed of Vref than from 200 kts.
Hope I' not just piling on.
__________________
Andrew Z.
Engineering Flight Test Pilot/Engineer, CFI-A, CFII, ATP
RV-7 in work (See my build log.)
Empennage...Done (except rebuilding the rudder.)
Wings...Halfway complete.
2018 Dues Paid
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08-24-2011, 12:46 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: ptown
Posts: 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyfalcons
I would have serious reservations about a forum moderator or leader deleting a thread simply because it may not look favorable upon the group. The topics brought up are very serious, self-critiquing in nature, and are intended to help the group prevent, or at least consider, flying behavior that may or may not be looked upon highly by our fellow aviators.
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I agree. Less government. Let us work things out.
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RV6
Maule M5
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08-24-2011, 01:51 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bozeman, Montana
Posts: 858
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Fly Low Or Fly Slow, Just Don't Fly Low And Slow
Quote:
Originally Posted by N999ZA
It's been kind of hinted at, but not really spelled out here, so I'm posting this just for the reference (plus a little editorial comment after). My understanding is that aside from the "careless and reckless", the other low pass violation is for 91.119 (para (b) and (d) omitted):
It's pretty hard to abide by 91.119(a) at 100' and 200 kts if your engine fails. Vref, and maybe you can put it down by the end of the runway.
I've heard that the low pass suggested by the authorities to assess the landing surface is part of the "Except when necessary for takeoff or landing."
Not sure about the case law or precedent, but if I were standing in front of the judge, it'd be a lot easier to say I was evaluating the landing surface at a speed of Vref than from 200 kts.
Hope I' not just piling on.
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I'm with you on evaluating the runway at a lower speed. It helps to see.
However, if you are going to fly 100 AGL, the faster you go the more kinetic energy you have, which enhances your ability to complete "an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface."
The oldest flying pilot I know told me once, "You can fly low and you can fly slow, but you don't want to fly low and slow"
Prior posted links have proven that the FAA can "get you" if they want to... So rather than worrying about what can happen at a potential hearing in the future, fly safely and let the chips fall where they may.
That is my philosophy anyway.
Hans
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10-30-2011, 09:28 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NorCal
Posts: 565
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[This email was posted to the Matronics lists by someone clearly upset by a local RVators club flyin earlier this year. It was forwarded to the president of the local RV club, a good guy who took care of matters. Is this how we want to be perceived??]
Guys:
XYZ flyin march 12
It has been reported that several of the RVs that attended this flyin did not communicate on unicom and flew thru the parachute landing zone. Also i know a pilot that was cut off by one of the RVs in the pattern that did not say a word on unicom. This **** has to stop and will stop if the feds have to get involved. This flyin resulted in multiple incursions into the parachute landing zone and one pilot was reported to get lost while taxing on the field to the point the he even taxied out to the road to get back to another area of the airport. We are professionals act like it!
While it is common for a group of this nature to use a common comm freq that does not relieve them of the responsibility to communicate with every one else.
An apology from the organizer of this flyin would go a long way toward patching relations with the XYZ field locals.
__________________
Ralph Finch
RV-9A QB-SA
Davis, CA
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10-30-2011, 10:27 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nucleus
I'm with you on evaluating the runway at a lower speed. It helps to see.
However, if you are going to fly 100 AGL, the faster you go the more kinetic energy you have, which enhances your ability to complete "an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface."
The oldest flying pilot I know told me once, "You can fly low and you can fly slow, but you don't want to fly low and slow"
Prior posted links have proven that the FAA can "get you" if they want to... So rather than worrying about what can happen at a potential hearing in the future, fly safely and let the chips fall where they may.
That is my philosophy anyway.
Hans
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The 200 kt low pass that caused the FAA complaint at our airpark was really due to the fact that the "low" portion of the pass started a few miles out from the end of the runway...
If you must do a low pass, at least keep the low portion within the airport boundaries - this should keep most complaints from non-flying neighbors to a minimum...
It would also fit in with your speed/safety comment.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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10-30-2011, 06:14 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Posts: 52
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I like to hot dog it like that too if the pattern is clear, but I get lower than 100 ft 
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10-30-2011, 06:27 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,523
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It got so bad, even the ducks hate us now
I keed.. I keed..
__________________
Radomir
RV-7A sold
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10-30-2011, 09:36 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Guthrie Oklahoma
Posts: 65
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Bottom Line
Big brother and the local news stations are watching all of us. A few inmature folks can screw all of us with their "watch me" actions. All of us lucky enough to fly RV's should just be thankful for what we get to fly and enjoy them in a sain way. Our "FAA friends" can make our lives not so good. Their job is NOT to promote aviation but to "protect the public". Think about that for awhile.  If you doubt this sit back and watch what happens after the dust settles out in Reno this year. 
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
Benjamin Franklin
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