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07-07-2011, 12:57 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TX32
Posts: 1,890
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Closure...
"Snake One, Bandit nose ten miles tracking West, 1000 Knots closure! "Snake One flight, Hud, power flares, Tally one...engaged! Right to right pass, get ready for G's, Pull, arrrrgggg (9 G sound) "Fox 2 kill, Snake one flight Snap West. "One Terminate"
Well. that's one generic sample of the comm involved in a Head-On, fighter to fighter (or anything else) engagement in close to head on aerial combat. 1000 knots closure equates to roughly 18 miles a minute or 30 seconds at 10 miles. Roughly the time it takes to read.
Why did I bring all this up?
This morning early, I decided to fly to my nearby uncontrolled public airport (I live on my own strip out in the sticks)to get some recently reduced price 100LL to augment the unleaded Non-ethanol Mogas in my tanks. Takeoff from home, 5 minutes of acro and 3 minutes enroute were uneventful.
As I approached the airport I made the standard calls in the blind. Normally the drop zone jump plane and some traffic are almost always the case. Today was the exception, crickets chirping notwithstanding. 45, downwind and base still eerily quiet, sun just reaching the trees, Alaskan civil twilight in FL!
As I rolled out on final I practiced my usual touch on "brick one" and 1000' turnoff. Just as I feel the chirp of the wheels landing I notice just descending out of the haze at the departure end, a twin on short final.
My fighter mind immediately told me: 5000 foot runway, 180 knots closure, 3 miles a minute, 20 seconds to impact. I keyed the mike: "twin on final to XXX, go around, aircraft on runway!". No reaction. 5 seconds gone by. I lower the tail and the twin touches down on the opposite end rolling towards me. 500 feet to the turnoff. "twin on runway zero four at XXX, aircraft on runway!" 10 seconds to impact, looks like this buffoon is a touch and go. 5 seconds to turn off. Slight right rudder and I'm clear.
I turn onto the paralel and the Apache zips by opposite direction. No reaction, silent. I hear a Delta wing trike pipe in on the CTAF, yes, my radio works. I warn him of the wayward Apache and taxi to the pumps.
Was it dangerous, sure. Perilous, well, maybe, depending on what you've experienced. For me enough high speed adventures and stuff thrown in the air at me has maybe numbed me a bit, but still an attention getter. What can we learn?
First, the NTSB statistics show more Mid-Air collisions at uncontrolled airports than not. Even with all the traffic clearing, radio calls and procedures, it happens. Why?
I think it is a number of reasons not the least of which is discipline. Sure, radios are optional at uncontrolled fields and see and avoid is the rule. Is it smart? Clearing the pattern, avoiding straight-in's and turning on lights in low light conditions helps. Mainly, it's vigilance.
For the Apache pilot, it was clearly indifference, or inexperience or both. For us, the lesson learned is reaction. What would you have done? For me, hip pocket numbers for closure and mid air avoidance are always there.
Maybe now for you too...
Smokey
Last edited by smokyray : 07-07-2011 at 01:12 PM.
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07-07-2011, 02:37 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,452
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Smokey,
glad you guys did not trade paint. A had a similar encounter with a cop car yesterday at an uncontrol airfield. We made all the calls. On downwind we saw a car on the taxi way (not moving). Surely he has a radio and can hear us. On final the cop gets on the gas comes across the holdshort line and was driving right at us (on the runway opposite direction). He got about half way down the runway before he saw us and stopped. By that time we were on a go-around.
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Axel
RV-4 fastback thread and Pics
VAF 2020 paid VAF 704
The information that I post is just that; information and my own personal experiences. You need to weight out the pros and cons and make up your own mind/decisions. The pictures posted may not show the final stage or configuration. Build at your own risk.
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07-07-2011, 07:38 PM
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fleming Island, FL
Posts: 161
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Similar experience last weekend
Winds were light but the sock was clearly indicating runway 5. I made multiple radio calls before taxiing onto the runway. As I start my takeoff roll I see a high performance low wing on the other end of the runway (not an RV!). He isn't moving and hasn't made any announcements over the radio. I am still on the ground accelerating when he begins his roll with no announcement or acknowledgement of my presence. I pull the power, get on the brakes and move as far as possible to edge of the runway. He continued his take off and departed the area. Thankfully the old 150 isn't a speed demon or we would have had a meeting of the minds.
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Con Kelley
RV7
Empennage and wings need tips
Fuselage kit "finished" (for the moment)
Finish kit and FWF in progress
Hartzell CS
Aerosport Power IO-360, Dual Pmags, AFP FM200 FI
Hangar construction at 7FL4 nearly finished.
Home construction at 7FL4 about to begin.
C-172 at KCRG (sold)
C-150 at 7FL4 (sold)
www.mykitlog.com/cakelley
www.1379.eaachapter.org
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07-07-2011, 08:00 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,208
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This is why we have eyes and are trained to use 'em. A couple of years ago I found myself in a head-on pass with a NORDO Cub that was landing in the opposite direction. Obviously, neither of us saw the other until we were both on short final. Actually, I"m not sure he ever saw me.
I went around.
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Kyle Boatright
Marietta, GA
2001 RV-6 N46KB
2019(?) RV-10
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07-08-2011, 09:00 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 1,261
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Radio Tuning
Like most of you I have had this sort of close call. Doing touch and goes and making all reacquired radio calls for several landings, on one touch and go notice airplane getting airborne from the intersecting runway. He never made a radio call or my guess made the calls but never had switched to the CTAF frequency.
Check Six, they are out to get you!
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Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A (First Flight 12-12-12!)
KOCF
N800ME
www.mykitlog.com/rvg8tor
Dues Paid 2019
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07-08-2011, 02:48 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Brooklyn Park, MN
Posts: 192
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Ag Planes/Pilots
While making an unscheduled "gross weight reduction" stop in Jackson, MN, on my way to a contest in my Pitt's, I was cut-off and nearly run though by not one but three ag planes in a row. They all made straight in, low, fast approaches onto the single runway. I went around two of the three times as I caught them rocketing out from beneath me. Luckily, the Pitt's is good at avoiding other aircraft.
I was pretty freaked out the first time. Next time around, when I saw a second steak of yellow come out from under me, on final, I figured I was maybe going crazy. Around again. I got in well ahead of the third guy, who was the only one that ever saw me in flight, and was taxiing right on my tail as I pulled up to the FBO.
All three lined up on the ramp as an attendant fueled them with turbines still spinning, then leapt back into the air downwind on the humped runway (you couldn't see one end from the other). They obviously had radios, as they coordinated well with each other, but made no calls on the CTAF whatsoever. You'd think they owned the place or something. Not judging all ag pilots, just these three.
Forrest
Last edited by MNForrest : 07-08-2011 at 03:21 PM.
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07-08-2011, 05:34 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,186
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Dang, Smoky ... you had enough speed to catch an Apache. I think -- correction, I KNOW -- I would've just fallen in trail and followed him and shared with him my personal opinion about his radio protocol, or lack thereof.
Glad your training kicked in and you stayed safe. You know that little button on the Viper throttle that says "DOGFIGHT"? :-)
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Don McNamara
Peoria, AZ
Builder: RV-8 "Smokey"
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07-08-2011, 10:39 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: atlanta, GA
Posts: 102
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Tail number
Is there any point in getting someone's tail number and writing them a letter?
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Jason Klovning
RV8A fuse
Platteville, WI
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07-13-2011, 10:43 AM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pisctaway, NJ - USA
Posts: 105
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Communicate...
I'd taxi over to were he's going and ask him if it was him or his Seeing Eye Dog as PIC.
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Happy Landings!
Kevin "PropellerHead" Schlosser
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Tooling Up for an RV-10 build.
Relocating to VA. Planning custom home build around RV workshop with wife's blessing!
My Website: www.propellerhead-online.net
RC Model Club: www.jcsportfliers.org
RC Bowling: www.rcbowling.org
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07-13-2011, 01:28 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: texas
Posts: 68
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hmmm
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8RV
Glad your training kicked in and you stayed safe. You know that little button on the Viper throttle that says "DOGFIGHT"? :-)
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It's not a button it's a switch 
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