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07-03-2011, 06:00 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
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Drawing extended lines on my "wrinkled" wing rib plan..........it appears that the spars are "not" parallel. I do remember that holes were drilled through both spars, with a line and plum bob........to align everything exactly. It's been 14 years since I completed my wings; yet I know that the rear spar fork becomes very ridged when all is riveted, and there is no twist required. In fact, you simply couldn't twist it, without damage.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
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07-03-2011, 06:28 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Adamson
Drawing extended lines on my "wrinkled" wing rib plan..........it appears that the spars are "not" parallel. I do remember that holes were drilled through both spars, with a line and plum bob........to align everything exactly. It's been 14 years since I completed my wings; yet I know that the rear spar fork becomes very ridged when all is riveted, and there is no twist required. In fact, you simply couldn't twist it, without damage.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
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...but the rib form block dimensions in the plans say that they are parallel... 
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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07-03-2011, 06:38 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
...but the rib form block dimensions in the plans say that they are parallel... 
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But...................my plan was wrinkled!  It was like an eighth inch in two feet.
What I don't want to hear, is anymore reference of "twist" to make it fit! 
It doesn't twist. But after pulling all of these plans out, I seem to .....no longer have the patience to check for all the why's and wherefors. It was tough back then.........you know..
L.Adamson
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07-03-2011, 07:29 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Adamson
But...................my plan was wrinkled!  It was like an eighth inch in two feet.
What I don't want to hear, is anymore reference of "twist" to make it fit! 
It doesn't twist. But after pulling all of these plans out, I seem to .....no longer have the patience to check for all the why's and wherefors. It was tough back then.........you know..
L.Adamson
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The reference to "twist" was that the fus. frame aligns itself when you rivet it.
Any twist that might exst in the F-605 is built-in and not applied later.... 
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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07-04-2011, 12:52 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 52
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Hi Gil,
The F-605 'side channels' (can't remember the # at the moment) extend below the lower crossmember with their flanges pointing aft... This being said, there will be a fair amount of twisting moment necessary to twist the carry-through fork-end into alignment with the spar end (as a guess, I would think it would be between 5&15ft-lbs) The assembly will be totally riveted by the time the wing is mated, so the holes will have been drilled with the F-605 carrythough in it's 'natural' vertical plane...
A couple of options come to mind to address the issue:
1) Pre-twist the rear spar fork pieces outboard of the outermost seat rib to match the rear spar (match the tilt of F-604) - this might not work too well since they only extend a few inches past the seat rib
2) purchase 1.5x0.187 bar stock and machine the angle into the end with a smooth 'transition zone' to the 0.125 length, so as to not create any 'stress risers' This would need to be done for both 'forward' and 'aft' portions of the fork parts.
3) Build it with the design-inherent mismatch in angle (approximately 1degree) then the bolts twist the components when the wing is mated to the fuselage and the rear spar bolt is torqued down.
Other ideas?
I'm also just looking at the F-6101 gussets and finding that those supplied in my kit have the same problem Colin Peterson had; the pre-cut parts don't match the plans and won't fit the fuselage if built per plans... If they are going to supply pre-cut parts, they need to be at least 'close' - this one isn't. Here's a link to Colin's kitlog site showing the issue: http://www.mykitlog.com/users/displa...105249&row=205
Looks like Colin re-made this part; I may do the same...
Thanks,
Chris
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07-04-2011, 01:23 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscencula
Hi Gil,
The F-605 'side channels' (can't remember the # at the moment) extend below the lower crossmember with their flanges pointing aft... This being said, there will be a fair amount of twisting moment necessary to twist the carry-through fork-end into alignment with the spar end (as a guess, I would think it would be between 5&15ft-lbs) The assembly will be totally riveted by the time the wing is mated, so the holes will have been drilled with the F-605 carrythough in it's 'natural' vertical plane...
A couple of options come to mind to address the issue:
1) Pre-twist the rear spar fork pieces outboard of the outermost seat rib to match the rear spar (match the tilt of F-604) - this might not work too well since they only extend a few inches past the seat rib
2) purchase 1.5x0.187 bar stock and machine the angle into the end with a smooth 'transition zone' to the 0.125 length, so as to not create any 'stress risers' This would need to be done for both 'forward' and 'aft' portions of the fork parts.
3) Build it with the design-inherent mismatch in angle (approximately 1degree) then the bolts twist the components when the wing is mated to the fuselage and the rear spar bolt is torqued down.
Other ideas?
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Something is wrong here. Nothing had to be twisted or pulled into place to fit. My RV6A kit was from 1996. No pre-twist, no 5-15 lbs. of force, and cutting of angles into bar stock. And there certainly was no design-inherent mis match.....that had to be pulled into place. I had a wood stick, with exact measurements of the distance between the front & rear spars. I continually used this stick, to check that the fuselage mating points remained the exact distance, until all was final drilled and riveted.
As I said previously.............the rear spar slid right into the fork, as the final few inches of the front spar was pushed in. No bending, no forcing, and no re-alignment as the rear spar bolt is tightened. I do believe, that you're on the "wrong" track here......as there is no issue. I have notes on my plans for specific changes that were used for improvements over the years. There is no reference to angle angle change for the rear spar. Have you looked at the Frank Justice --- supplemental plans? I used then often.
BTW--- I'm not trying to be argumentive. It's just that in the last 17 years or so, that I've been around RVs.........I do not remember this "issue". During my build, I went through the Matronics builders forums every day. I used the Frank Justice supplemental guide book, and had the Orndorff RV6 videos. There was so much information out there, that I never had to call Van's. As my RV is on the heavier end, it still is fast, and trims easily. Controls have a better feel than some RVs. I must have built it "straight"...
edit: try this. It's back in 1996. There are several replies to the question.
http://www.matronics.com/searching/g...HOWBUTTONS=YES
L.Adamson --- RV6A
Last edited by L.Adamson : 07-04-2011 at 02:02 PM.
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07-04-2011, 03:35 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Adamson
Something is wrong here. Nothing had to be twisted or pulled into place to fit. My RV6A kit was from 1996. No pre-twist, no 5-15 lbs. of force, and cutting of angles into bar stock. And there certainly was no design-inherent mis match.....that had to be pulled into place. I had a wood stick, with exact measurements of the distance between the front & rear spars. I continually used this stick, to check that the fuselage mating points remained the exact distance, until all was final drilled and riveted.
As I said previously.............the rear spar slid right into the fork, as the final few inches of the front spar was pushed in. No bending, no forcing, and no re-alignment as the rear spar bolt is tightened. I do believe, that you're on the "wrong" track here......as there is no issue. I have notes on my plans for specific changes that were used for improvements over the years. There is no reference to angle angle change for the rear spar. Have you looked at the Frank Justice --- supplemental plans? I used then often.
BTW--- I'm not trying to be argumentive. It's just that in the last 17 years or so, that I've been around RVs.........I do not remember this "issue". During my build, I went through the Matronics builders forums every day. I used the Frank Justice supplemental guide book, and had the Orndorff RV6 videos. There was so much information out there, that I never had to call Van's. As my RV is on the heavier end, it still is fast, and trims easily. Controls have a better feel than some RVs. I must have built it "straight"...
edit: try this. It's back in 1996. There are several replies to the question.
http://www.matronics.com/searching/g...HOWBUTTONS=YES
L.Adamson --- RV6A
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I agree, nothing should be pulled, pushed or twisted....
The seat ribs will align everything when they are riveted in.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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07-04-2011, 03:49 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
I agree, nothing should be pulled, pushed or twisted....
The seat ribs will align everything when they are riveted in.
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Just have that measuring stick handy, to make sure!
L.Adamson --- RV6A
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