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08-27-2007, 10:58 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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EXACTLY!
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Originally Posted by L'Avion
From reviewing the archives, past thoughts indicate that it might be a good idea to remove the gas struts from tip-up canopies, and use a lanyard-type restraint.
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That's the main reason that I haven't installed "struts" on my -6. I have the original canopy "hold-up" rod that was supplied with my kit plus an additional one on the right side for somewhat windy conditions. Both are completely disconnected when the canopy is closed.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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08-27-2007, 11:06 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by L'Avion
past thoughts indicate that it might be a good idea to remove the gas struts from tip-up canopies, and use a lanyard-type restraint.
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The gas struts just pop out of the ball joints with a good tug. Remember too that for the canopy to be jettisonable you MUST chop out the forward top skin so the hinges can slide out the top. It's not enough to just install the release mechanism.
I'm curious if the tip-up could even come off in flight. It seems to me that the lugs would probably bind up in the holes. Yeah, it would probably break them off...but it wouldn't be a simple departure from the aircraft.
If the airplane is in a controlled situation but you see the need to bail out (a la Sean Tucker) the struts would not create a considerable obstacle.
__________________
"What kind of man would live where there is no daring? I don't believe in taking foolish chances but nothing can be accomplished without taking any chance at all." - Charles A. Lindbergh
Jamie | RV-7A First Flight: 7/27/2007 (Sold)
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09-06-2007, 07:18 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Socal
Posts: 106
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RV6 Bail out
I have a RV6 with inv systems, I do acro quite a bit , I did put removable pins in the tubes over the rollers , the thought being I could pull the pins and get the canopy open a few inches and shove....hopefully it will work.
Peter
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09-07-2007, 09:16 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ottawa, On, Canada
Posts: 30
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re: chute with slider canopy
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Originally Posted by Mel
I wear a chute when doing acro in my -6. My chute is 22 years old but has never been opened in flight and is stored in the closet when not in use. If you have a tip-up, you must remove the gas struts to utilize the canopy jettison. Mine was built before the gas struts and has the original latch which isn't attached with the canopy closed. If you have a slider, I'm sure you can't open it in flight anyway. I also wear the chute while flight testing. But I don't so as much of that as I used to.
Mel...DAR
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Can someone please explain why you cannot get the slider canopy open?
Thanks,
Brian
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09-07-2007, 09:35 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kilcoy, QLD, Australia
Posts: 32
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The whole suggestion that you cannot open a slider canopy in flight doesn't make sense to me. I have read all of the posts discussing aerodynamic loads etc and the situation I see is that they all assume that you will be in controlled flight flying straight and level.
The few scenarios that have been offered as reasons to bail out are unconrollable fire, structural failure and flight control failure.
In all but the structural failure scenario (in which who knows what has happened or how the aircraft is situated) you still have control authority over the aeroplane (even with the control failure).
I don't know if I would even bail out with a control failure. During my training years back my instructor regularly simulated failing of a particular control surface and through the substitution of other controls we would still land o.k (ie.turn with rudder instead of aileron, elevator trim instead of elevator etc). I was suprised at how well I could control the aeroplane this way. I understand if you had a jammed control in a deflected position that this may be a different story.
If you did decide to jump and you had control authority, why couldn't you climb the aircraft steeply to result in a nose high stall? you would then have slower airspeed to provide less aerodynamic load and gravity and the weight of the canopy to help you open it.
I intend on wearing a chute in all regimes of flight as you just never know. My biggest fear is structural failure. In this case your all but certainly going in so you might as give yourself a fighting chance.
Once again just my 2 cents. At the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference.
Commenting on others posts, I think the idea about egress training (whether someone elses or creating your own) is an excellent idea. I also liked the comment about not underestemating the abilities of a dying man.
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Regards,
Andy Griffin
rv8andy@gmail.com
RV-8 QB under construction.
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09-07-2007, 04:53 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Evans, GA
Posts: 208
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The solution is obvious. Install a whole-airframe ballistic recovery system to elliminate the aerodynamic forces, open the canopy, and bail out using your back pack.
__________________
Ken Howell
Evans, Georgia
RV-7 N92LT - Based at Thomson-Mcduffie airport HQU
TMXIO-360, Dynon Skview
Flying since June, 2012
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09-07-2007, 05:17 PM
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Chief Obfuscation Officer
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 1,110
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kevinh
Allen is a great guy...
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I completely agree! Quick Allen story... When I was involved in the local IAC chapter, for something like three years in a row (maybe more) Allen, no matter how hard he tried to avoid it, walked away from our annual holiday party gift exchange (white elephant) with a can of Spam. He was always a good sport about it and joked that we would eventually regret it -- he said that some day one of us would need to use our chute and upon bailout we just might find the pull top from a can of Spam in place of the d-ring on the chute.
Sorry for the diversion, back to the scheduled discussion...
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01-06-2008, 11:27 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Northwest
Posts: 79
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To the original question...has anyone jumped out of an RV-8? Yes as attested to in this accident report from 07/99. Note however, he was not wearing a chute. He might have survived otherwise. I always wore a chute in my RV-8 and still wear one in my RV-4. (It's a softie)
Accident occurred Saturday, July 10, 1999 in LAFAYETTE, OR
Probable Cause Approval Date: 11/30/2000
Aircraft: Alexander VAN'S RV-8, registration: N41VA
Injuries: 1 Fatal.While en route during an unknown phase of operation, the O-360-A1A engine, which had been overhauled by a facility in Canada and converted with 'high compression' pistons/cylinders, developed a partial power loss after about 35 hours of total operation. Metallurgical examination revealed that the #2 connecting rod fractured in two places due to fatigue at the rod end resulting in release of the rod from the crankshaft. No evidence of engine disassembly or maintenance by the owner/builder was found. Post-crash examination revealed holes in the upper engine case and disintegration of the #1 piston. A witness reported observing the aircraft at low altitude over gently rolling terrain trailing black smoke during which the pilot was observed to exit the aircraft. The aircraft rolled into a descending right turn and impacted the terrain 600 feet from the pilot's ground impact, and a post-crash explosion and fired ensued. Reconstruction of portions of the aircraft revealed sooting and evidence of pre-impact fire forward of the firewall in the vicinity of the gascolator as well as pre-impact heat damage to the Plexiglas windscreen and canopy. The only evidence of heat/fire distress observed during post-mortem was the pilot's eyebrows and forward hairline. The aircraft's canopy is airfoil shaped and during flight conditions would tend to create an aerodynamic low pressure condition near the top of the canopy. If the canopy were opened in flight with fire conditions existing along its forward exterior surface, the entrainment of hot air and fire within the upper cockpit interior environment may have become intolerable for the pilot.
__________________
Frank M
RV8 500 Hrs Sold
RV4 300 Hrs Sold
RV3(B) Sold
RV4 Refreshing engine
Last edited by Frank : 01-06-2008 at 11:29 PM.
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01-07-2008, 05:39 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank
The aircraft's canopy is airfoil shaped and during flight conditions would tend to create an aerodynamic low pressure condition near the top of the canopy. If the canopy were opened in flight with fire conditions existing along its forward exterior surface, the entrainment of hot air and fire within the upper cockpit interior environment may have become intolerable for the pilot.
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Well, this kinda debunks the theory that you even "should" open the canopy in flight when you have a fire. Sounds like a job for the Myth Busters. Reminds me of the scene from Fly Boys, not pretty.
How much do parachutes cost and how do you keep them maintained? I would guess that they would need periodic inspections and repacking.
__________________
Mike
JAMES AIRCRAFT.com
Flying - RV8 Hot Rod "Drone Killer"
Flying - RV8 "Look'n Good"
RV4 - FAST & FUN! Rebuilt, Flown, Sold
RV-7A Built, Flown, Sold
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01-07-2008, 08:08 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 163
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Chute Prices
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Originally Posted by Capflyer
How much do parachutes cost and how do you keep them maintained? I would guess that they would need periodic inspections and repacking.
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The price of a new chute varies somewhat on chute type/size and container style. Expect to pay around $1600-$2000 plus. I bought my Mini-Softie ( http://www.softieparachutes.com/) at Sun-N-Fun. They were offering a pretty good show discount. I also saw Allen Silver?s seminar at Sun-N-Fun, he?s fun to listen to.
The price of chutes seems to be like new cars. As soon as you buy a brand new one, their resale price drops significantly. I have seen a few good chutes on EBay go for well under one third the price of a new one. I bought new because I wanted a large square chute since I have skydiving experience on squares. Round canopies are recommended for non skydivers.
The repacking/inspecting is done every 120 days and can usually be done at your local Skydiving center. Depending on the chute type, a repack can run $25-$75, which is a small price for anything related to aviation.
Being an old skydiver, I figure why not wear a chute. You never know when something unforeseen will happen. Even Sean Tucker needed to use one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm4dXC7aVzs
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