Landing the 6A

Cadstat · #1 06-20-2011, 12:01 PM

I can't hold the nose off when landing my -6A.
Here are the conditions:
6-7,000 FT DA, solo, 30 gallons fuel, C/S 320, 15-20 degrees flap, I'm 185 lbs.
I know I'm likely nose heavy anyway.

I touch down on the mains at 45-50 and then the nose falls within 2 seconds. I'd like to hold it off longer until some speed is gone but can't. Any suggestions?

luddite42 · #2 06-20-2011, 12:23 PM

If during touchdown and rollout you're holding the stick fully aft, and the nose is dropping quickly, then that's just the best you're gonna get, which is fine. No way to change that without taking weight off the nose of the plane. The only way you're going to hold the nose up longer is to add power, which of course works against the purpose of the landing roll....to get stopped.

Ron Lee · #3 06-20-2011, 12:27 PM

Touch down on the mains at a higher speed. Then you can keep the nose up longer. May be the same airspeed though. I am not sure you have a problem.

Let the nose down gently.

pierre smith · #4 06-20-2011, 12:37 PM

They do have a lot more weight way up front...as far forward as you can get it!

If it doesn't have a lightweight Skytech starter, replace the rhinoceros Lycoming unit with one. Add a 20 lb toolbox to the baggage area as well.

Best,

luddite42 · #5 06-20-2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Lee

Touch down on the mains at a higher speed. Then you can keep the nose up longer. May be the same airspeed though. I am not sure you have a problem.

Let the nose down gently.

The amount of time spent with the nose held off is not what's important. What we're getting at is the SPEED at which the nose cannot be held off any longer. Yes, landing faster will let you hold the nose off longer, but doesn't make any sense actually doing that....the nose will still come down at the same speed when the plane slows sufficiently. All you're doing is delaying the inevitable, and making the transition to the "nose dropping speed" on the ground rather than in the air...all with no effect on the speed at which you can still hold the nose up. Doing it on the ground is just going to lengthen your landing roll when you could have touched down slower and shortened it. The net result is the same, and you have not made the landing any safer, as that's the point of holding the nose off to the lowest possible speed. That's what the OP was getting at.

It's kinda like saying, "How do I hold the tail up longer doing a wheel landing in a taildragger?" Well, land faster! Yes, that will do it, but what's the point? The tail is still gonna come down at a certain speed when airflow diminishes.

jjconstant · #6 06-20-2011, 02:02 PM

I noticed the same thing during flight testing my 7A solo with more than 1/2 tanks. I did two things:

When at that cg I do as Pierre suggests and carry ballast in the baggage compartment -- during testing it was usually 50lbs! I also found that limiting the amount of flaps used reduced the pitch down moment so I could keep the nose off at slower speeds. It sounds like you're already doing this to some extent. Depending on conditions this may or may not be appropriate but I always had way more runway than I needed and am not obsessed with making the first turn off if I have good reason to use more runway. I also know of some folks who like to retract flaps when the mains touch...I'm still messing around with a variety of landing techniques. It's all fun!

Jeremy Constant
RV7A 110 hrs

Cadstat · #7 06-20-2011, 02:30 PM

Lots of good points. I used to carry 50 lbs of ballast in the rear seats of the 210 when by myself. I do have an bad habit of wanting to make the first taxi way.
I'll try 10 degrees of flap and 20 pound of ballast in the luggage bay and maybe coming in a little hotter.

Ron Lee · #8 06-20-2011, 02:33 PM

John, I was kidding about landing faster EXCEPT....if you land at a low speed then the nose drops too hard immediately, then land faster so you can control the nose letdown. I really do not know what my comparable speeds are. I also do not usually worry about making the first available taxiway. I try to minimize stress on everything..including brakes.

What is your CG in this landing condition?

mrreddick · #9 06-20-2011, 05:28 PM

Wow! If I landed that slow I don't believe, in all honesty, that my butt could stand the pounding, not to mention my tires and/or gear legs. Okay, I'm 50 pounds heavier than you but I wouldn't attempt a final approach that slow. Maybe it's the constant crosswinds in my area or it's my preferred sink rate to touchdown. 70 kts is much more comfortable and controllable. Just my two cents, oh, and I don't have any problem keeping the nose up for several hundred feet on rollout. Almost forgot, I use 30 degrees under most conditions unless by some chance it's dead calm, then I use 40.

L.Adamson · #10 06-20-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrreddick

Wow! If I landed that slow I don't believe, in all honesty, that my butt could stand the pounding, not to mention my tires and/or gear legs. Okay, I'm 50 pounds heavier than you but I wouldn't attempt a final approach that slow. Maybe it's the constant crosswinds in my area or it's my preferred sink rate to touchdown. 70 kts is much more comfortable and controllable. Just my two cents, oh, and I don't have any problem keeping the nose up for several hundred feet on rollout. Almost forgot, I use 30 degrees under most conditions unless by some chance it's dead calm, then I use 40.

I use 70 knots over the fence, and know that it better be real close to the ground at 60. With my C/S prop...............the airspeed bleeds from 60 real real quick! Flaps are anywhere from half to 40. Land without power & a bit of power........depending on mood.

L.Adamson --- RV6A