New Eggenfellner Performance Numbers

[ccrawford]

Just a couple of things to add to the mix:

The supercharged version of the H6 is made for RV10s.. they don't recommend the supercharged version for a -7(A).

Jan said in a recent email to the eggenfellner mailing list that the actual prop once it is out of development will be 76" and could be cut down to 72" if desired.

[rv6ejguy]

First on the prop, this is a 4 blade. I'd see no reason to make this any larger in diameter. Jan wants it efficient over a wide power setting range. The whole point of turning it slow is to keep it efficient. This is an option with the correct redrive ratio. Most turboprops are turning props very slow compared to direct drive piston engines in ther quest for max efficiency and low mach numbers. I was told by MT on my RV10 Sube that dropping max prop rpm to 2550 from 2700 by using a different governor would increase prop efficiency 2-3% in cruise. This has been comfirmed by at least one other MT user through flight testing on a canard design.

Most auto engines do not have such a flat torque curve as a Lyco, therefore 1500-2000 engine rpm may impact hp than 300-400 on a Lyco.

Typically, Subaru engines are fitted with very large throttle bodies and runners (my 2.2 has a 60mm TB) and show almost ambient MAP at WOT. The H6 in its present state with VVT is very efficient compared to fixed cam timing engines.

Some of the modern high CR direct injection auto engines have demonstrated SFC figures below .40 at or near torque peak rpm. Most conventional auto engines are in the .43 to .46 range at cruise power settings.

I think there are too many variables present here to speculate about hp. If the data presented is accurate, Jan has closed the gap on the fuel flow vs. speed argument on the auto vs. Lyco debate considerably and my hat is off to him. I frankly thought it would take more development time to accomplish this. We should also be thanking beta testers Tom Moore and Robert Paisley as well for their tireless devotion testing many of Jan's new parts.

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by hevansrv7a

BTW, George - If a James cowl is worth 8 mph top-end, it's worth a heck of a lot more than 4 mph at cruise. Also, I once figured out it will be worth about 12 HP on my 7A that has not flown yet. That's close to 0.5 GPH.

No argument from me buddy. Sounds good. My 4 mph number was a low low ball to be conservative when trying compare the H6 vs. Lyc numbers, but you are right. Also excellent real world common sense evaluation of the data. I suspended disbelief and just went on the assumption they are valid, eyebrow's in down and locked postition. With any engineering data you have put it through the "reasonable meter" and show repeatable results.

The props comments are true. Slow turning props are efficent, and you could go to larger dia. Cool ideas. If prop is designed properly for the fwd airspeed and low RPM, it's a very efficent way to go. Even a Lyc and Hartzell can do that and get great gas milage by dialing down the RPM loooow. However with a direct drive engine low RPM is less HP. Still efficent but slower. I also applaude his efforts.

G

[rv72004]

I have always thought that the Sub is a good option but have recently been put off by a Sub owner. The owner of this Eggenfeller engine [for a Glastar] tells me that the service of Eggenfeller is not good. He also said that Jan Eggenfeller was abrupt and rude and even put the phone down on him. I know this fellow and he is a eazy going type person, so am very inclined to believe what he says.

He also says that J Eggenfeller edits all the forum posts on his forum site.

This has now completely scared me away from considering a Eggenfeller Sube.
Has anyone else have something to add before I totally forget about the Sube??

Thought I would post here as many Sube owners would be reading this thread.

[rv8ch]

Originally Posted by rv72004

I have always thought that the Sub is a good option but have recently been put off by a Sub owner. The owner of this Eggenfeller engine [for a Glastar] tells me that the service of Eggenfeller is not good. He also said that Jan Eggenfeller was abrupt and rude and even put the phone down on him. I know this fellow and he is a eazy going type person, so am very inclined to believe what he says.

He also says that J Eggenfeller edits all the forum posts on his forum site.

This has now completely scared me away from considering a Eggenfeller Sube.
Has anyone else have something to add before I totally forget about the Sube??

Thought I would post here as many Sube owners would be reading this thread.

I thought you were going with the XP360?

A couple of points. On Eggenfellner's forum, there are two categories of users - those that have bought the engine, and those that have not. Once you've bought the engine, there is no moderation on the posts - they go right up. For the rest, they get moderated. He said he implemented this policy because there were some people who had no intention of buying the engine but were spending a lot of time bashing his package. I have no idea how many posts are removed or edited, if any.

Buying an engine from a single source supplier has risks. What if Jan gets hit by a truck while jogging to work? What would happen to his company? What if he just goes out of business? These are risks that I considered, and decided they were acceptable risks, since most of the engine is just a standard, stock Subaru, and the other parts that have been manufactured can be re-built at a good machine shop.

Each person has to evaluate their tolerance for risk of this type, and make their own decision.

[rodrv6]

I have an H6 from Jan, and I'm very satisfied with the way he handles his business. The only "problem" I've had is his getting a bit behind schedule on engine deliveries. My December engine was delivered in February, but that was not really a big issue. Jan has always been very responsive to questions or concerns that I've had along the way. I went down to his shop about a year ago to take a motor mount to him, and my Father and I had a very nice visit with him (and a very fun and fast ride in his car to lunch and back) and he was very willing to answer questions and such.
I wouldn't hesitate to do business with him anytime.
As far as parts support in the future should something happen that caused him to go out of business, with the exception of the reduction drive, the engine package looks like it would be fairly easy to get parts for. The engine itself is stock Subaru, and the external "aircraft" parts could be duplicated by any competent fabricator.

[Rotary10-RV]

Group,
It seems that there are a large number of people that simply don't like to see people become successful. Jan's problem is typical, once you have become the "best available" package there is a number of people that just want to knock you off your perch. I do not own, but have close association with 2 people who have Eggenfellner engines. One is Tom Moore, the demo unit for the new belt drive. He is very happy with his Egg motor package. He will also confidently fly far from home in the plane. (The confidence factor is important IMO.) Tom flew to a meeting of our EAA chapter in Livermore CA. at night without worry. (his words) His home is in northen Oregon. That is a ringing endorsement of his feel for the engine.
My other friend has an earlier 2.5 L engine in his RV-9 which is near flying. He has never had problems getting his questions answered. MOST people believe Jan is a top notch guy, some will always be dissatisfied, others indifferent. If you think Eggenfellner has poor customer service you probably won't like anyone's. As usual the typical disclaimers apply; YMMV, PDOACC, ETC.
Bill Jepson

[rv6ejguy]

I don't find my posts edited on Jan's Yahoo site but I understand the need to sometimes. If you saw the bashing Jan took on some of the other forums a few years back, you might understand. Every business has problems no matter how well managed and there will always be some customers who are not happy.

Late deliveries have been part of the picture unfortunately for all three of the main Subaru engine companies in the last few years. Jan is always trying to deliver a better product so the package is never frozen for long. Updates and changes create some of these delays but you are probably getting something better in the end.

I don't own an Eggenfellner package but have dealt with Jan on some previous collaborations. He seems like an innovative, enthusiastic guy wanting to give people a viable alternative to traditional aircraft engines. Has he made mistakes? Sure, as have we all. I doubt any company has a 100% customer service rep but Jan seems to have a very high percentage of satisfied ones.

[rv72004]

Thanks for the replies . As I thought there are always 2 parts to a story.

[DeltaRomeo]

Originally Posted by Yukon

H,
Don't worry, you won't get flamed! They don't know what you are talking about!!!! I do, though, and I'm not afraid to put it in plain English. Complex propulsion systems suffer from inefficiencies that can only be compensated for with an intricate system of smoke and mirrors!
John
RV-9 QB Lycoming

Gentlemen,

I'd like to remind everyone that new forum usage rules are now in place. I want the tone civil and the mood respectful. I will take action, action of the perminantly-banned kind, if this does not occur from this point forward.

Doug Reeves
Forum Owner