VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Education > Visual Flight Rules
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-17-2006, 01:58 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default What is the minimum VFR equipment you are comfortable flying with?

One of the threads in the Glass Cockpit section had me thinking that a number of pilots are uncomfortable flying with minimum VFR instruments.

The question is, "What is the minimum VFR equipment you are comfortable flying with?" (Day VFR flights only are assumed.)

My answer is: Compass, airspeed, altimeter, ball, chart and a watch. (The watch is so I can do time & distance calc's with my wiz wheel.)

Man, I miss flying J-3?s, T-Crafts, Luscombes, and Champs!
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-17-2006, 02:23 PM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is online now
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,408
Default Minimum equip

I am comfortable flying with only my eyeballs, and the feeling in the seat of my pants----------------But that is in my old Stinson.

The feds probably wont be happy with that equip list, so I have a bunch of other thingies in there also--------------

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-17-2006, 02:42 PM
rv8ch's Avatar
rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGY
Posts: 3,173
Default Min Equip

It depends on where I'm flying. If it's in the neighborhood, which means that I can see mountains I recognize, then I don't need anything but my eyeballs to navigate. A radio is nice to find out if there are parachutists in the area, but if I don't have a radio, I just avoid areas I know might have jumpers.

We have a B?cker Jungmann in our club, and it's an open cockpit, so the radio is a joke. The only thing I look at when I fly it is the G-meter and the RPM gauge.

If I'm going somewhere I don't regularly go, I really prefer to have my GPS so that I don't bust airspace. Obviously the altimeter and ASI are useful for going from place to place.
__________________
Mickey Coggins
http://rv8.ch
"Hello, world!"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-17-2006, 02:46 PM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
Talking Minimum instruments

Bill,
I fly my Air Tractor 400 miles to Ft Pierce Fl for annuals with only an old Garmin 95. The FAA says that you must have an airspeed, altimeter and magnetic compass (which bobbles like those dolls in back windows). I'd gladly fly to California and back, VFR, with only the above mentioned instruments. The GPS sure makes it easy and you can use WAC charts too.
Pierre
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-17-2006, 04:04 PM
gmcjetpilot's Avatar
gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,283
Default Yes but not at night

Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
One of the threads in the Glass Cockpit section had me thinking that a number of pilots are uncomfortable flying with minimum VFR instruments. The question is, "What is the minimum VFR equipment you are comfortable flying with?" (Day VFR flights only are assumed.)

My answer is: Compass, airspeed, altimeter, ball, chart and a watch. (The watch is so I can do time & distance calc's with my wiz wheel.)

Man, I miss flying J-3?s, T-Crafts, Luscombes, and Champs!
Bill the min per the FAR's listed below is fine, slip ball not need with my calibrated seat pants.

Sure no electrical system, no nav, no com is fine for local day VFR. However with battery powered handheld radios and GPS, I would have it for a long cross country for sure. Not all areas in the country are pilotage heaven. Why the electronics: I am lazy and safety. There is nothing like knowing exactly where you are and knowing what is going on at the airport. Dead reckoning is fun but with GPS why? Still I would pilotage or dead reckoning if I had to without worry.


Night VFR, the FAR's say you don't need any more equipment except approved position lights and anticollision lights and a power source for them.

I WOULD BE VERY MUCH LESS WILLING TO FLY LONG CROSS AT NIGHT WITH PILOTAGE ONLY AND NO ATTITUDE INSTRUMENT.

Practically speaking I would not be comfortable flying X-C on a dark night with out at least a T&B or TC.

Would I consider a no gyro, no com, no nav Cub for a night X-C flight (with lights of course)? It would have to be clear weather, fuller moon, over known benign terrain I had flown before with ground lights to pilotage off of. However, again with little battery powered GPS, I can't see doing that. Now with terrain displays it is even more of a safety enhancement for night flight. Why not avail yourself to it.

Many times taking off on a dark but VFR night, over water or remote unpopulated areas, I needed to go right on the gages. I am instrument rated, but that does not help much with just altitude, airspeed, tachometer and no gyro's.

Of course if you don't practice instrument flying it does not matter how fancy your GLASS is. Many say they will switch their autopilot on. Hard to argue with that but still think you should keep the instrument skills up.

I always taught my VFR pvt students to treat night as semi-instrument conditons and be prepared to use their attitude / gyro instruments. I always did night cross countries with students, intentionally trying to pick no or low moon nights. I remember flying on a full moon night with a student. It was so bright that after we took off I canceled the lesson. YOU could SEE everything easily.

Night cross-country with students was efficient because they logged both night and X-C dual. Dark remote airports (no ground lights) for landings is excellent training. Of course we had a 6-pak of instruments in the mighty C-152. I did this only after they had hood time and mastered night landings at a bigger well lit airport. They where well prepared, but it's a real eye opener for them when they rotated to see nothing but dark. I never had a problem with a student and felt good that if they blunder into a dark night spacial disorientation situation they have a chance.

I advise anyone to avoid (never) land at unfamiliar airports at night with out a PAPI or VASI, especially X-C. Read the night landing accident reports and you will know what I mean.


**(Significant Day VFR items)
Sec. 91.205
(1) Airspeed indicator.
(2) Altimeter.
(3) Magnetic direction indicator.
(4) Tachometer for each engine.
(5) Oil pressure gauge for each engine using pressure system.
(7) Oil temperature gauge for each air-cooled engine.
(8) Manifold pressure gauge for each altitude engine.
(9) Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank.
(11) For small civil airplanes certificated after March 11, 1996, in accordance with part 23 of this chapter, an approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operation of the aircraft may continue to a location where repairs or replacement can be made.

(THAT'S IT)


George

PS: (Question about Anticollison light installation and operation)

Notice FAR 91.205 (11) above says your planes equip must include anti-collison lights even for DAY VFR plane! Agree? That means if you have them you need to run them, right? per 91.209 - Aircraft lights:

"No person may:

(a) [Par (a), 1, 2 (i, ii, iii) and 3; talks to night time operations]

(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anticollision light system, unless it has lighted anticollision lights. However, the anticollision lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that, because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to turn the lights off."

I hate the wording but is says "lighted" anticollison lights. Which I read you must have anticollison lights on at all time if equiped with them, day or night. Par (a) does not apply.

I only mention it because I have seen some RV's with out collison lights installed. Also many folks don't run their collison lights during the day. Is that wrong?

Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 04-17-2006 at 04:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-17-2006, 04:49 PM
jbDC9 jbDC9 is online now
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 866
Default

Minimum equip for Day VFR? Easy! A set of eyeballs, airspeed and altimeter! Maybe even a compass...

Last month I flew an old 7GCAA Citabria from Houston to Flint, MI... 900 miles with 3 WAC charts and my old Lowrance Airmap 100 GPS. The ship was quite basic, just a com and transponder. The last hour or so was night, so I switched on the T&B, just in case. Like George mentioned, night VFR can get interesting...

Just before sunset I got a bit concerned; it clouded up, was hazy, viz down to 4-5 miles or so. Scud running at night? No thanks! I seriously thought about parking it for the night... but the wx reports said it was clear ahead, so I pressed on for another 15 minutes or so, and what'cha know, it cleared up and the last hour was easy. If there'd been hills/mountains in the area, I'd have parked it, no question.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-17-2006, 04:57 PM
szicree szicree is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,061
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot
(11) For small civil airplanes certificated after March 11, 1996, in accordance with part 23 of this chapter, an approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operation of the aircraft may continue to a location where repairs or replacement can be made.

I only mention it because I have seen some RV's with out collison lights installed. Also many folks don't run their collison lights during the day. Is that wrong?
I was under the impression that no lights were required of experimentals during day operation. Section 11 doesn't apply to our non-certificated birds, right?
__________________
Steve Zicree
Fullerton, Ca. w/beautiful 2.5 year old son
RV-4 99% built and sold
Rag and tube project well under way

paid =VAF= dues through June 2013
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-17-2006, 06:09 PM
osxuser's Avatar
osxuser osxuser is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 2,484
Default

Just because the Anti-collision is installed doesn't mean it has to be on. Also A '69 Witman Tailwind I work on doesn't have any lights except nav... and those aren't hooked up.
__________________
Stephen Samuelian, CFII, A&P IA, CTO
RV4 wing in Jig @ KPOC
RV7 emp built
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-17-2006, 06:13 PM
RScott RScott is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Estacada, OR
Posts: 787
Default

Depends on where you are. Coming back from Europe on a wide body, the pilot came on the intercom to announce that there was activity on the runway at Portland & we would be going around. At 2,000 ft, he swung around to the north, just outside Evergreen Airport's airspace, east to just outside Troutdale, then back to Portland.

Hmmm. I fly my no radio ragwing Interstate Cadet thru that air same space at 1,500-2,000 ft. to say outside the class C airspace and to avoid the bluffs of the Columbia River Gorge if I am going north. Would the pilot have been aware of my presence? If so, would he have gone higher to avoid giving me a wild ride in his wake turbulance? Maybe an electrical system with a transponder would be a good thing in this area.

Otherwise, I can read a sectional real well and eyeballs are all I need in this plane. In the RV, I expect navigation to get more serious because I could get lost a lot faster in it, so a compass (one that actually shows which way is north, unlike the one in the Interstate) and watch would be minimal additions.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-17-2006, 08:36 PM
drathbun drathbun is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Duluth, Minnesota
Posts: 17
Default Minimum per FAR's

This is what I've got so far (probably going to upgrade to IFR, but this works for now)
airspeed
altitude
tachometer (fixed pitch)
transponder
com radio
voltage
fuel pressure
fuel guages (left and right)
oil temperature
oil pressure
egt/cht (not really necessary but nice)
handheld GPS
__________________
-Dave
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:20 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.