ECI IOX-320 Stroker!

[keen9a]

And an effective corngrowers lobby

[john kelley]

Take a look here:

http://www.ethanol.org/PressRelease71905bhtm.htm

From the limited research I have done, the net loss position on ethanol is a political calculation more than a scientific one. The main assumption is that corn is grown simply for ethanol production and that the total cost to plant, cultivate, spray, fertilize, harvest and transport the corn makes it a net looser. This assumes that corn is only grown to produce ethanol which is a false premise. See here for what you can get from a bu. of corn:

http://www.iowacorn.org/cornuse/cornuse_10.html

As a member of a farm family, I have a biased view but I do not believe the net loss assumption. There will be a slight up tick in total corn production as ethanol use goes up but there is a large industry that depends on corn production that will continue even if you throw away the mash used to produce ethanol.

[rgbewley]

That and big companies, i.e. Cargill, trying to develop new markets for a product that they overproduce, and we the taxpayers pay their farmers to overproduce it! Crazy!!!

[RVbySDI]

Originally Posted by rgbewley

That and big companies, i.e. Cargill, trying to develop new markets for a product that they overproduce, and we the taxpayers pay their farmers to overproduce it! Crazy!!!

Oh come on now. I grew up in a farming community. I know a large number of farmers. Not one of them would I think of as wealthy. Or, when it comes to politics very powerful either.

You city dwellers who have had little or no exposure to farming should not be so quick to jump to conclusions about political conspiracies by some "farm lobby". I am sure there are plenty of big boys in the farming world but farming is not like the oil business. How many family owned and family run oil wells do you know about? There is, however, a large population of our country who own and operate family farms who could benefit from an increase in the sales of their products. They have struggled with commodity prices for farm goods for decades. This could be beneficial for the smaller family farm out there as well as the few big boy farm producers.

This sounds like an awful lot of bashing for the sake of bashing. Fearmonging and conspiracy theories are not very constructive. They serve little positive purpose. It seems to me that in your eyes you see any change as something to avoid at all costs regardless of the situation. In particular, this change as something that will ruin your flying fun. I am pretty sure that if it weren't for changes in all of our lives we would not be enjoying life as we know it now. I am sure we would not even be conversing had the change in the working world not shifted from manual processing of information to computerized processing of information.

Our world does need a paradigm shift in terms of how we use energy. This includes the use of alternative methods for motivating ourselves around be it on wheels or wings. If there are more efficient methods of doing so why would we want to fight that?

Why don't we all use that 100LL as long as we can but also learn how to do something new that will not only benefit ourselves but the rest of the world too. Or, is it just a matter of "looking out for #1" that is all important? "By God, don't even think about taking away my lead laced hydrocarbon chemical compounds. I am an American and that gives me the right to do what I choose. After all, we are not like those Chinese over there on the other side of the world poluting themselves to death with their poisonous dust all for the sake of getting what they can from the world without a care in the world for what they are doing to it."

RVBYSDI
Steve

[keen9a]

1) I'm one generation off the farm.

2) Look no further than the bloated size of the Dept of Ag to see how successful the ag lobby is. Yah, so its Cargill, ADM, etc, and not the small farmer that I'm paying for.

I say lets free the whole market and let price drive the market for both ethanol and oil. That's just a pipedream, but one that would leave me the tax payer a lot more cash for airplanes and flying.

[RVbySDI]

Originally Posted by keen9a

1) I say lets free the whole market and let price drive the market for both ethanol and oil. That's just a pipedream, but one that would leave me the tax payer a lot more cash for airplanes and flying.

Well, I am not going to claim to have any expertise in this area but it does seem to me that the oil industry was driven solely by price for a large portion of its early existance. I do remember my childhood and how poluted everything was due in part to the tailpipe emissions from all of those internal combustion engines spewing out toxic fumes. I look at what is happening in China now without any "environmental wackos" restricting use of dangerous chemicals and I see America 50 years ago.

If price alone dictated our world you would care less if your airplane spewed dangerous toxic fumes as long as it was economical to operate. As much as I dislike these prices (and believe me I do), I still see the need for some level headed people having a say on how we use these chemicals. Without them we would have long ago been living with poisonous air floating over our homes and hangers causing all kinds of misery. We would have undrinkable water and land so poluted it would not grow any crops. It is much cheaper to disregard those things than it is to use our machines responsibly. That would be the world if dictated by price alone.

Our culture lives in the present. "The past is the past. We can worry about the future when it comes!" We are a short sighted lot who need a little prodding to do things responsibly. I am afraid that might have to come from some government regulations sometimes.

I am not so absolutely sure it would "leave me the taxpayer a lot more cash for airplanes and flying". We might find our money needed for more serious things like medical bills and paying for expensive food and water because of the rotten environment we would be living in.

RVBYSDI
Steve

[keen9a]

Oh my. Well, as this is an RV site and not econ 101, I'll pass on the environmentalism other than to say, yes environmental rules are necessary. Rules are different that spending my hard earned money on someone else. I can't imagine how farm and oil subsidies have any positive effect on the environment, and I'm quite sure that if we closed the ag dept. and returned the cost to taxpayers, I would have more cash for flying.

[RVbySDI]

Originally Posted by keen9a

Oh my. Well, as this is an RV site and not econ 101, I'll pass on the environmentalism other than to say, yes environmental rules are necessary. Rules are different that spending my hard earned money on someone else. I can't imagine how farm and oil subsidies have any positive effect on the environment, and I'm quite sure that if we closed the ag dept. and returned the cost to taxpayers, I would have more cash for flying.

Perhaps you are right and perhaps this is a discussion for another forum. This thread was originally started to discuss the ECI IO-340. I am afraid I have somewhat highjacked that topic for which I appologize to everyone. I would welcome any additional information on this engine and will refrain from deviating from the topic next time around.

RVBYSDI
Steve

[Harvey L. Sorensen]

Just how much power do you think that less than 3% of the nations population have? That is what the American farmers are. The Dept. of ag is the dept that gives your kids lunch at a very low or (free) price. Poor me. Its the dept of ag that checks to make sure you don't get screwed at the gas pumps by checking the gas meters. The list goes on but all you hear about is how the rich farmer just keeps on getting more of your tax money. There are a few farmers that are able to take advantage of the system but very few and they are clamping down on them.
The main goal of the US government is to make sure that you have cheep food, and the way to do that is to sub farmers. If you paid a fair price for your food and cloths you would not have enough money left to bur any 100LL So lets not cuss the farmer with your mouth full. thats all.

From one who knows. Have farmed for 55 years

[Jekyll]

Do fiesty aircraft debates break out on agricultural web sites? Humm..

Jekyll