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02-11-2011, 07:27 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Estacada, OR
Posts: 787
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It was the EPA, not congress that approved 15% ethanol, and only for late model cars--2001 and later.
So 15% presents a practical problem for the gas stations, who carry regular, mid grade and premium. They have 2 tanks and the pump mixes the regular and premium to make mid grade. To carry the 15%, they would have to abandon regular or premium, which would also mean abandoning mid grade, so they could tank the 15%--or go all the way with 15% exclusively and just pump into to newer cars. That so they could sell 15% to those drivers who want 15%, which is not mandatory for those newer cars. And they couldn't sell 15% for older cars--or at least it isn't approved, whatever that means. So how many gas stations will make the change? If you had a gas station, would you abandon the older car market so you could support the ethanol industry? What is the incentive for the gas stations?
Aviation: In Oregon a few dealers carry ethanol free gas which is legal for off road vehicles. A friend went to his usual gas station for the good gas, pumped 5 gallons from the usual pump, then noticed it now had an ethanol sticker on it. So he stopped pumping, took the gas home and put it in his truck. In the process, he noticed the filter showed about 1 teaspoon of water in the bottom, just from that 5 gallons of 10% ethanol gas. I wouldn't fly with that junk.
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Richard Scott
RV-9A Fuselage
1941 Interstate Cadet
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03-20-2013, 09:54 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: arvada, co
Posts: 445
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10% ethanol
In the EAA Webinar this evening Dean Vogel from Lockwood said UL high octane gas with 10% ethanol was fine. The concern comes in the fuel system and any hoses, o-rings, or gaskets which might not like the ethanol.
I saw at least one post in this thread about a belief the RV-12's tank and fuel lines, because they are aluminum, would handle the ethanol just fine.
Others please weight-in with experience and opinions about the use of fuel with 10% ethanol.
Also Dean did mention the use of water to remove ethanol and it does result in the removal but lowers the AKI (Anti-Knock Index or octane) so it could make the fuel to low and 91 AKI is the minimum. 
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Patrick Claar
Arvada, CO BJC
RV12, #401, Flying 2013, N612PC
RV6, 1996-2010 sold
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03-21-2013, 09:58 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,179
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in an attempt to get back to OP ...
from reading other VAF threads, there have been [at least] two categories of concern as it relates to ethanol:
- vapor lock - ethanol has a lower vapor
- tolerance of gaskets / parts - ethanol breaks down some materials
For new builders, these topics are easier to address than existing aircraft.
I presume the same answers for supporting 10% apply for 15% ?
Are there new concerns when looking at 10% vs 15% (or just an increase of the same concerns) ?
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03-22-2013, 10:11 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: arvada, co
Posts: 445
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New thread of factory SB 13-3-21 answers a lot of questions.
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Patrick Claar
Arvada, CO BJC
RV12, #401, Flying 2013, N612PC
RV6, 1996-2010 sold
Last edited by funflying : 03-23-2013 at 05:43 PM.
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03-23-2013, 12:23 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
I wonder if this will really happen. It was announced this week that corn stocks are at an all-time low. One of the reasons they mention is the use of corn in ethanol production.
That is also one of the reasons given for the rise in food prices worldwide. With luck, our politico's will figure this out and stop forcing it upon us.
Besides, corn should be drunk, not burned.
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which is why the ag lobby pushes the use of this useless additive. it does nothing other than line the pockets of the big ag companies and causes significant hardship around the world as food prices skyrocket.
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RV-8 IO-360 (Bought)
RV-6 O-360 C/S (Sold)
Walkman aka Flame Out
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03-24-2013, 07:58 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Biggsville ILL
Posts: 82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
which is why the ag lobby pushes the use of this useless additive. it does nothing other than line the pockets of the big ag companies and causes significant hardship around the world as food prices skyrocket.
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HOW IS THIS RV RELATED? Don't look like to me you are following Doug's rule's.
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03-24-2013, 07:59 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Biggsville ILL
Posts: 82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
which is why the ag lobby pushes the use of this useless additive. it does nothing other than line the pockets of the big ag companies and causes significant hardship around the world as food prices skyrocket.
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HOW IS THIS RV RELATED? Again looks like to me you are not talking about RV related here.
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03-24-2013, 08:00 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Biggsville ILL
Posts: 82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
which is why the ag lobby pushes the use of this useless additive. it does nothing other than line the pockets of the big ag companies and causes significant hardship around the world as food prices skyrocket.
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HOW IS THIS RV RELATED? Again looks like to me you are not talking about RV related here.
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03-24-2013, 08:08 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Biggsville ILL
Posts: 82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan
This thread is rapidly drifting from the aviation aspects of ethanol into political diatribes. No additional warnings will be given, just closure of the thread if this continues.
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Ya Sam you guys are getting my blood pressure pumping. I got banded for sticking up for what I do for a living here. So instead of Doug sticking to his rules that he made I quit donating money. So he is the one that can look in the mirror and not wonder why his donations are down. Ok I'll go back in my hole I came out of.VAF is a STRESS-FREE, civil place for fans of Van's RV kitplanes to virtually socialize. The hope is that when you finish your RV, you fly places and ACTUALLY MEET the people you have met online here. If you consider an RVator thousands of miles away a good friend now, we've done our job! Home of the VAF Forums (rules).
Not to stress-free when you are talking about making me unemployed.
Last edited by m3tt5 : 03-24-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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03-24-2013, 10:25 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,820
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Chill, guys!
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