Suggestions to Vans: The RV-12 is a game changer.

Bill_H · #1 02-02-2011, 03:18 PM

I was about to post this in the "500th RV" thread but I think it should be separate. I think the 12 will have more impact than Van's thinks. I am an ex-Bonanza co-owner. The 12 is not just a light-sport plane - it is an affordable (in aviation terms, cheap!), brand-new state-of-the-art responsive personal aircraft with full versatility.

At a year to build (and easy) it is a game-changer. The difference between a 900 hour build and typically 2500+ hours is a BIG DEAL DIFFERENCE. BIG! Yes it has limitations. It is not speedy like a 7-8-9-or-10, but it is faster than the Cessnas and Warriors I (and many) used to drive, cheaper to operate, and much more capable with the new avionics and autopilot. (And its not a 30 year old cosmically boring plane either.)

The folks at Van's are spoiled by their easy access to planes like the RV 7, 8, and 10. (Imagine how affordable a 2-person partnership on an RV-12 could be!) I tell you - when there are 300+ of us flying and more every week (I'm currently working on the fuel system) there will be a big difference in thought about this plane. The big magazines will be taking notice.

The 12 is fully capable as a personal traveling machine for two people. In several years of Bonanza ownership we had 4 people in it about 3 times. Game changer - wait and see. There are people building the 12 that never would have even *considered* building a 6-7-8-9 after just 10 minutes research on the amount of work involved in those.

The RV-12 market can increase - and it will if Van's pays attention to suggestions like the one by Jetguy in the 500th RV-12 thread about really targeting a larger-than-the-traditional-homebuilder market. (And making the already good instructions even better.)

For example, EVERY KIT SECTION should have its own DVD and those should be sold cheaply to prospective builders - much higher impact than a sample plans kit. Imagine seeing an expert build each section with good video of each significant step. Imagine not having to ask what you know are "dumb questions" on this forum! Target this plane at the 1st time builder and people that just need a confidence boost.

VANs needs more demo outlets than just one in Oregon and one on the East Coast. Several RV-12s should be touring the US for demo rides. They should have an 18-wheel trailer making the airport rounds containing a plane and a bunch of parts and sub-assemblies for a traveling road-show about how easy it is to build, and to offer rides. They would get lots of orders if many folks who do not go to OSH and who never seriously considered building a plane could get a really good look. You have to see and touch this thing to take the plunge.

I bet some of the others here have some better ideas too.

JBPILOT · #2 02-02-2011, 03:27 PM

Agree with most of your points - EXCEPT - there are about 90 'DEMO' planes out there now. I have given several rides to serious buyers. We are doing the demo's for them.

John Bender

vandi · #3 02-02-2011, 03:37 PM

On the flip side, you don't want to over saturate the market. Vans could spend tons of marketing the RV-12 or any of their other kits, but if they are happy with the flow of sales with the marketing level they have now, then so be it.

I'm sure they don't want to get to the point where they advertise themselves out of business. Fortunately for them, they have a product that pretty much sells itself. If they get to successful, then kit lead times might increase to the point where a builder starts a project and then turns off since they can't keep the pace up. Yeah Vans could expand production, but at what pace do they saturate the market and start to lose hold on to "the good thing?"

They could sell 1000 kits this year, and next year turn around and sell 50 since 800 of those kits are being resold.

I say sure and steady and make improvements on the RV-12 (skyview, different power plant choice, weight improvements, documentation) than ramp up marketing and production to non-sustainable levels.

sf3543 · #4 02-02-2011, 03:38 PM

I don't care for the gas tank in the rear baggage area.
I'd say hardly anyone cares about removeable wings.
Maybe make a version with fixed wings and wing tanks and let people choose.

diamond · #5 02-02-2011, 03:45 PM

Nice observations Bill, BUT, if I were Vans, the lesson I would take is that most people (not all) like easy-to-follow instructions, which equates to quicker build time with fewer mistakes and a higher completion percentage. THEREFORE, put your manpower in making the other kits easier to build. You'll sell more of them as a result.

DonFromTX · #6 02-02-2011, 04:24 PM

I still think more exposure is necessary. I for one example could not get to even SEE one, finally found one about 300 miles away, the closest one around.
That said, it seemed that nobody in this area was even interested in an RV 12. Not so, as soon as the word got out I had a kit and was building, everyone appeared to come out of the woodwork interested in it. I feel I will make a small fortune on Van's "Finders Fees".

It appears I will get my first ride in one when mine is complete - as test pilot!

dick seiders · #7 02-02-2011, 05:29 PM

Well i'll tell you pilgrim it makes me feel pretty **** smart to have bought, built, and flying one as much as I can.
As for Van's i would say they know what they are doing when it comes to the homebuilt market.
Dick Seiders 120093

Driftdown · #8 02-02-2011, 05:52 PM

Concur ...

Also would like to see an option for a prefabricated, 1-piece, canopy. Many builders I have talked to feel the toughest part of the RV-12 project was the fiberglass layup for the canopy. Any builders out there with comments about that?

From what I have seen and read from the plans, if I want a nice looking finished canopy, I know I will need help with that. Not afraid to reach out either.

Dave12 · #9 02-02-2011, 06:35 PM

FWIW, the removable wing was one of the attractions. I don't like the fuel tank either. Overall it is a good package, one that is hard to top. As far as a production increase, Van's appears to know what they are doing. Vans is an American success story. Look at what has happened to Harley Davidson. They chose to mass produce and the market is flooded. They can't sell new ones and used ones are hard to sell also. IMHO, although far from perfect, I will put their business model and their development model up against anyone. Beyond Van's the next best thing going is the Air Force. My .03

Jamesey · #10 02-03-2011, 01:58 AM

I don't care for the gas tank in the rear baggage area.
I'd say hardly anyone cares about removeable wings.
Maybe make a version with fixed wings and wing tanks and let people choose.
__________________
Steve Formhals
RV6 & RV8
A&P, Tech Counselor & Flight Advisor

Agree 100%. I think this would be a popular option for the RV12.

Jamesey