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01-24-2012, 02:31 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,645
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listing less than Vans gross weight
From what I have been reading on this thread, I, the builder can pretty much set the max weight to whatever I want. I understand I may have to justify it to FAA or insurance company at some date.
My question is, could I set the weight for a -9 at 1320lbs even though Vans says 1600-1750? And yes, Im trying to find a loophole to build the -9 as an LSA. I would still have to deal with the speed, but if I painted it like the Piper 140 I saw the other day, speed wouldn't be an issue. It looked like they used a paint roller and house paint!
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01-24-2012, 02:50 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,769
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Yes, you can initially set your gross weight at 1320 lbs.
This would be the easiest part of trying to comply with LSA limitations. Other problems include max speed and clean stall speed.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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01-24-2012, 03:30 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,645
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speed would be the issue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
Yes, you can initially set your gross weight at 1320 lbs.
This would be the easiest part of trying to comply with LSA limitations. Other problems include max speed and clean stall speed.
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The clean stall speed appears to be ok for LSA. lsA requires 45 knots, the -9 says 44mph on Vans site. As for the speed, I may need to swipe the lancair speed brakes from my friend and mount them open at all times or some kind of air anchor!
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01-24-2012, 03:36 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwoodrv9
The clean stall speed appears to be ok for LSA. LSA requires 45 knots, the -9 says 44mph on Vans site. As for the speed, I may need to swipe the Lancair speed brakes from my friend and mount them open at all times or some kind of air anchor!
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I believe the 44 mph stall speed listed on Van's website is with full flaps.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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01-24-2012, 04:21 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,645
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51 mph
Correct. The LSA exact is 51mph clean. Depending on the engine in the -9, it is pretty close. Im not sure how the FAA would check, maybe it would involve an actual demonstration. Im looking for loopholes here or a way to make it possible. If I am the manufacture, maybe I can just test it and say it meets the requirements. It can't be that simple, but Im looking for anything I can to make it work.
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01-24-2012, 05:23 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane Qld. Aust.
Posts: 2,271
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Van has an LSA , it's an RV 12
Trying to squeeze a -9 into the LSA is a waste. I know a guy who did it here, and I just can't see the sense in it.
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01-24-2012, 05:42 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,645
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reason
David, I understand RV has an LSA. The 12 is a great plane. Im not here to argue about that. As for it being a waste or you seeing a reason for it, you don't have to. As for me, there is a good reason. I want a -9 because I live in Colorado and in my opinion, the high altitude performance in the 9 is better than the 12. I currently can not qualify for the medical needed for the 9. There is a chance that the FAA will pull their head out of their orifice and include planes like the 9 as acceptable for LSA.
So you see David, there doesn't have to be a reason that is acceptable to you. The Vans is an experimental airplane. I had one of my engineers look at the structure of the 12 to see if I could mount a Rotex 914, and he said it would be difficult, but possible. I suppose I could build a 12 now, sell it and then build a 9 when the rules change, but I don't have that much time. If I can build the plane I want now to meet the LSA requirements then modify it later, that is a better option for me. That is why for me, there is a good reason to explore the possibilities.
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01-24-2012, 06:07 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwoodrv9
There is a chance that the FAA will pull their head out of their orifice and include planes like the 9 as acceptable for LSA.
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I suspect they'll do that about as quickly as some builders and pilots stop turning a blind eye to common sense.
__________________
Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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01-24-2012, 08:18 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,645
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goes both ways
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake
I suspect they'll do that about as quickly as some builders and pilots stop turning a blind eye to common sense.
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Maybe when the FAA starts using common sense and make regulations based on facts and statistics, some of us won't have to look for ways to get around those regulations. As I said, you don't have to think it is a good idea or concern yourself if I am using common sense or not. It is up to me to decide if it is a good idea or not.
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01-25-2012, 02:56 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 211
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Risk Perception
I love it when Navy guys talk about taking too much risk.
Honestly.
Those men have commited to taking the most riskiest flying known to man. way, way WAY over the risk thresholds of any of the civilian sectors.
When I was an officer in the Army I have had friends of mine shoot live rounds past me at less then an few feet by accident and then run past and say "oops sorry dude".
The Military for those reasons gets taught to be extremely risk averse but thats because they take HUGE risks. Any Navy pilot that tells you their lifestyle is safer is just kidding themselves. Thats why it takes balls of steel to do it right, because if you don't, your dead!
I know a guy that flew from London to Capetown with 2200 pounds in an RV 7 and he put the CoG as far back as he could. I am not even going to tell you how far back it actually was. He flew through an African thunderstorm on the way back. Not that I think thats a good idea but he did. The RV was OK.
If you really want to understand risk perception listen to this. Fly up really high with a friend in an RV 10 then in the middle of the flight just open up the door and jump out, but so you don't get hurt grab a big piece of cloth and tie some little ropes to the edges and just hold on to the little ropes on the way down and you should be OK.
There are people in this forum that thing that doing this is far safer than flying an RV7 at 1900 lbs.
Sky diving, sure, an extra 100 lbs, your mad.
Your living inside of a risk paradigm.
Its not physics, its not best practices its a way of thinking and most people will argue the merrits of their paradigm.
The reality of risk is that its a concept.
The events brought about by action, that is different. That is consequence.
And that is determined by God, who here would have thought that an RV7 with 2200 pounds, going mostly at 185 KTAS ,with the CoG all the way back that goes through a thunderstorm would be OK.
Perception is what this post is about and I think all of it is healthy conversation that allows people to view other perspectives. If it makes anyone think twice about anything both in an adventurous way or a conservative way then I think this forum is functioning well.
... but then again, thats just my perception
__________________
Gus Bisbal
RV7
Obsession only exists when someone else isn't doing it too.
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