Deltahawk article

[ship]

Originally Posted by flyingdefinescontent

Oh man, I would love to see one mounted and flying, just to be able to get some of my concerns out of the way. This thing is a two-stroke. I've had some experience with older two stroke diesels and they were loud, loud, LOUD! Loud enough to rattle fillings (and rivets loose). And they used a bunch of fuel as compared to their 4-stroke brethren. On the other hand I drove a 6V92 Detroit diesel equipped truck, fully loaded (80,000 pounds), 15 miles to our mechanic at about 50 miles per hour after the crankshaft broke. The truck shook alot but never missed a beat, amazing.

it's not loud at all. actually about the same as lyco. slightly more "mechanical" noise at idle but no knocking or loud exhaust

[ericwolf]

Originally Posted by flyingdefinescontent

Oh man, I would love to see one mounted and flying, just to be able to get some of my concerns out of the way. This thing is a two-stroke. I've had some experience with older two stroke diesels and they were loud, loud, LOUD! Loud enough to rattle fillings (and rivets loose).

FWIW, I live in Racine, WI where thier hanger is located. I attended a joint SAE/EAA (I'm a member of both) presentation at our chapter building a couple years ago. The presentation was given by the Deltahawk guys and was very informative. At the end of the meeting, they pulled out their Velocity with the DH engine and fired it up. Even after doing a runup, it didn't appear to be any louder than a Lyc. Just my perception.

[ship]

Originally Posted by mdredmond

2. In addition to burning less, fuel is cheaper. In Texas, I can use tax-free agricultural diesel (i.e., the stuff sold to farmers) and save at least $0.38 per gallon.

only approved for JetA. diesel fuel is a no-no. lots of crud in "diesel" especially "off-road" or "ag" diesel (high sulfer, etc.)

it'll run, but you don't want to trust your butt with diesel fuel in an airplane.

diesel also has a nasty tendency to turn into jello at cooler altitudes.

[Deuskid]

Originally Posted by ship

only approved for JetA. diesel fuel is a no-no. lots of crud in "diesel" especially "off-road" or "ag" diesel (high sulfer, etc.)

it'll run, but you don't want to trust your butt with diesel fuel in an airplane.

diesel also has a nasty tendency to turn into jello at cooler altitudes.

true, true, ...BUT

not so 7-1-06 when the USA and Canada will join the rest of the world [5 years late] in using ULSD [ultra low sulpher diesel].

Trucking Cos and the Big 3 put a 5 year lag on it here and that is due to expire this summer. The reason we have fewer auto diesel choices than Europe [were 50% of vehilces are diesel] is rot-gut diesel and poor EPA rules [again, skewed by big 3 lobbying to favor gas vehicles [hmmm a SUV can get 10 mph and a diesel gets near 50 and diesels are limited [new diesel technology is amazing, at idle a diesel puts out 1/10th the pollution of a cigarette]]]... when calculated on a miled traveled per pollution expelled diesels are very clean [and then there is the whole Bio-diesel, grow our own benefit as well].

Anyway, beginning in July clean ULSD will be available for use.

John

edited to add this related thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ed=1#post47768

[mdredmond]

Originally Posted by ship

only approved for JetA. diesel fuel is a no-no. lots of crud in "diesel" especially "off-road" or "ag" diesel (high sulfer, etc.) it'll run, but you don't want to trust your butt with diesel fuel in an airplane. diesel also has a nasty tendency to turn into jello at cooler altitudes.

I was talking about the Thielert - it is certified in Europe to run on either - or any combination of both. The point about diesel at low temps is certainly true.

[mlw450802]

Originally Posted by ship

only approved for JetA. diesel fuel is a no-no. lots of crud in "diesel" especially "off-road" or "ag" diesel (high sulfer, etc.)

it'll run, but you don't want to trust your butt with diesel fuel in an airplane.

diesel also has a nasty tendency to turn into jello at cooler altitudes.

From deltahawk's website:

Q: So, what fuels are acceptable for use in your engine?

A: Acceptable fuels are Jet A, Jet A1, JP5, JP8, D1 and D2, which are all kerosene based. The high naphtha fuels (JP 4 and Jet B) are not suitable.

-mike

[ship]

Originally Posted by Deuskid

true, true, ...BUT
not so 7-1-06 when the USA and Canada will join the rest of the world [5 years late] in using ULSD [ultra low sulpher diesel].

no argument there. however, the main benefit of JetA in aerodiesels is that it is more highly refined. The main benefit of JetA is prolonged life of the fuel pumps.

Can't speak for the other engines, but DeltaHawk has tested all fuels and found JetA (with small amount of lubricity additive) to be best for the health of the high pressure fuel pumps.

No doubt there will be those who burn diesel nonetheless. Temps below 40F are risky, which means altitude is an issue on all but the warmest days.

[ship]

Originally Posted by mlw450802

From deltahawk's website:

Q: So, what fuels are acceptable for use in your engine?

A: Acceptable fuels are Jet A, Jet A1, JP5, JP8, D1 and D2, which are all kerosene based. The high naphtha fuels (JP 4 and Jet B) are not suitable.

-mike

that's for benefit of military and non-aviation industrial uses. engine "performance" is one thing, "flight" is another. aviaton applications will not be recommended with D1 or D2. the recommendation is more about consistency and reliability in flight rather than whether the engine will burn it.

Thielert and SMA are certified for operation on diesel, but they don't recommend flying on diesel fuel. DH will most likely follow same path since certification effort is so difficult, i.e. you get as much as you can during the process.

fwiw, i worked with deltahawk for 2 years; still in close contact with the company. also did the setup for FAA certification effort. diesel is NOT favored by FAA for flight for these same reasons. Thielert and SMA were certified in Europe; FAA is still not convinced diesel fuel is worthy of certification but is willing to listen. FAA must accept European certification and vice versa.

otherwise, yes, the engine will happily burn almost anything as long as TBO reliability isn't a requirement.

[Dave_Boxall]

Originally Posted by mdredmond

I'm more interested in the Thielert diesels. They're only 135hp, but they'd be fine on a -9 and they sip fuel. Certified in Europe.

Problem is, they won't work with 'end-users' - they will only deal with a kit manufacturer to develop a FWF package.

Diesel is so much better for so many reasons...

I'm working on a 9A in the UK. We're awaiting delivery on our Wilksch WAM-120 (120 HP). We expect delivery in around 2-weeks. We hope to see 3 RV-9A's flying with this engine in the UK by the end of this year. Wilksch are working with the builders as the 9 is pretty popular in Europe so they see a significant market. A 9A mount is available now, and as soon as a builder sorts out a cowl Wilksch hope to be able to supply those as well.

The Theilert is pretty heavy for the HP - probably too heavy for a 9

Dave

[N395V]

Have never seen this before