Panel Layout - Dynon Skyview 10" with back up steam

KayS · #1 01-14-2011, 01:08 PM

Hi together,

i need some thoughts about my RV-7 panel design. here's the initial situation:

my technical assessor in germany (who has to sign off the whole project) was fine with glass instruments but he requested (or let's say ordered) me to throw in some back up steam gauges. first i wanted to make the panel only glass but then i started to like the idea and the look of a main glass instrument mixed with back up round instruments. then i thought if i have to put in steam gauges anyway i could back up almost all the parameters shown on the Dynon, in case somebody shoots a hole into the dispaly i could fly completly without it. So i went ahead and ordered all the instruments you can see on the picture and cut all the holes into the panel, a lot of money and effort spent already. (i am very trigger happy to make decisions without investing much thinking beforehand)

anyway... now i was wondering how to connect the instruments to the sensors. i have to splice a lot of sensor lines here and i think there isn't a problem with the 3 1/8 speed, altimeter, VSI (Vario) and the smaller gages Fuel-, Oil-Pressure, Volt/Amps, MAP.

but how to do that with the sensors that rely on thermocouple/resistor? is there any way to let the Dynon share a sensor with a steam instrument at the same time?

On the pic all the switches, circuit brakers are not shown. the GT-50 sits on the fwd top skin. i am happy to hear some comments about the general layout.

Kay

bkthomps · #2 01-14-2011, 01:35 PM

save room by using the transponder module from dynon

KayS · #3 01-14-2011, 01:56 PM

no, for several reasons i can't use the dynon transponder

N941WR · #4 01-14-2011, 01:57 PM

Back in the dark ages when I built my panel, the D100 was new.

I wanted back up steam gauges at that time.

Since I also went with the Dynon EMS D10 engine monitor, I would have a full glass panel, except for...

The Garmin 496 is my single nav system and since it has an internal battery, that would not need a backup instrument.

Since the big, expensive hunk of aluminum and steel up front makes a lot of noise, I figured that if the engine monitor went dark and that thing kept making lots of noise, I would be fine getting it back on the ground. Thus there are no backup engine instruments in my plane, nor do I feel they are needed. (Check with your guy and see if you can fly with just the SkyView engine instruments. You won't be sorry. Being able to set alarms and have them alert you on the screen, put a tone in your ear, AND record the engine data is priceless.)

Regarding the flight instruments... I'm VFR only, so that drove some of my decisions. Originally I put in an airspeed, altimeter, slip ball, and whiskey compass. The compass came out right after the inspection because I could get that information from the 496. So far, it hasn't been missed. Besides, the Dynon has one. The altimeter is there and works fine. The slip ball was removed when I installed the Dynon AP74 as for some reason I always looked at the D100's slip ball.

I'm still not sure why so many people put in a VSI. I'm thinking I can tell by the altimeter if I'm climbing or descending. Granted, it isn't as sensitive as a VSI but you don't really need it. I would rather put a D6 or D10A in that hole.

Just one guy's thoughts on panel design.

n981ms · #5 01-14-2011, 02:13 PM

I am no expert but to my taste and design philosophy: I would not back up anything but flight instruments if I could help it. If you must back up engine instruments maybe he would go for a dedicated glass engine monitor. You might even ask about a dual adhars and dual screen with some electrical redundancy. If steam is desired or absolutely required. I would prefer a backup attitude over the vario. It may not sound like it but I kinda like steam too.

FWIW
Maxwell

KayS · #6 01-14-2011, 02:18 PM

Hi thank you for the fast replies. i feel that the discussion now goes towards the question if back up instruments are necessary or not. but this decision has been done already.

my urgent question is how to let two instruments share one thermocoupke/resistor sensor.

Kay

rvmills · #7 01-14-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N941WR

I'm still not sure why so many people put in a VSI. I'm thinking I can tell by the altimeter if I'm climbing or descending. Granted, it isn't as sensitive as a VSI but you don't really need it. I would rather put a D6 or D10A in that hole.

Just one guy's thoughts on panel design.

Bill,

Once you start on the instrument rating, you'll be fond of the VSI...it tells you what the altimeter and the glideslope needle are going to do next...a good thing!

Of course the EFIS has one in it!

For Kay, sounds like you've already made the investments and the cuts, so pure glass versus glass-plus-steam is a moot point. But on the shared wiring for the steam and the Skyview, that's a good question to put to the good folks at Dynon. I have Van's fuel guages and a VM-1000,and often contemplate putting in a Dynon EMS to compliment my Dynon EFIS. I've considered leaving my Van's fuel guages in and having them as backups to the EMS. However, I've been told they can't share the senders...makes them both read wrong. There may be a way around this (put in duplicate senders or some electrical magic...resitors, diodes, etc...I don't know if its possible, but something to ask), and each of your steam backup engine guages may have a similar issue, or each one may have its own particular issue. Something to really sleuth out.

It'll be an interesting and fun panel to fly behind...will be intersting to see how your scan develops in it. One question, is this all a requirement to fly it in Germany...just wondering?

Have fun and happy building!

Cheers,
Bob

KayS · #8 01-14-2011, 02:40 PM

Hi Bob,

thank you. your statement brings me close to order an second dynon and just to put in ALT, Speed and VSI as back up.

there is no special requirement for steam back up in germany but the technical assessor that was allocated to me requested it. He is a reasonable guy (aeronautical engineer) that was also for decades the chief test pilot of dornier with i don't know how many thousand hours on all kind of airplanes. so his knowledge is a little bit deeper than mine.

and i feel his points about back up instruments are valid.

Kay

N941WR · #9 01-14-2011, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvmills

Bill,

Once you start on the instrument rating, you'll be fond of the VSI...it tells you what the altimeter and the glideslope needle are going to do next...a good thing!

Of course the EFIS has one in it!
...
Cheers,
Bob

I know but I see them in VFR panels all the time. Still, for backup instruments, I would rather have something else, like a D6.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KayS

Hi Bob,

thank you. your statement brings me close to order an second dynon and just to put in ALT, Speed and VSI as back up.
...
Kay

The 2nd Dynon is the way to go. (Or some other manufacture's artificial horizon.) Just order the Dynon EMS module for your SkyView, it will be money well spent.

Why not run all this by your inspector friend? He probably has some very good ideas on the subject.

rvmills · #10 01-14-2011, 03:14 PM

Kay,

First, definitely build it for you...for how you fly, for what your mission is, and for and what you want to look at.

On the backups, concur with Bill, a second EFIS with some primary flight instruments will make for a safe platform with loads of redundancy. Backup engine guages will complicate the install, I would think. You might want to talk with Stein to see what the actual install of the various components you decide upon will require.

I bought my plane with one Dynon D100 in it, and was going to add a TT autopilot and an MGL AS-1 (airspeed and alt) combo backup. Then Dynon came out with their autopilot, and the two servos, AP-74 and a D10A backup EFIS I ended up installing cost me what the TT would have cost. It was a good solution for my airplane and mission (VFR). But that's just one solution for one guy...so many options for you. Were I to go for an IFR panel, I'd have backups as well, which dual ADAHRS and some basic steam would provide. Again, all IMHO.

There are many solutions, and combining the advice of your tech advisor, and the pilot/avionics knowledge of a guy like Stein would be really valuable to find a solution that meets your needs and is realistically and technically acheivable.

Have fun designing and building!!

Cheers,
Bob