|
-
POSTING RULES

-
Donate yearly (please).
-
Advertise in here!
-
Today's Posts
|
Insert Pics
|

10-04-2015, 05:05 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 621
|
|
RV-10 Amsafe Airbags
Has Amsafe abandoned the effort to produce airbag seatbelts for the experimental market, specifically the RV-10?
|

10-04-2015, 03:31 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Winston-Salem, N.C.
Posts: 1,213
|
|
My 2 cents
At my day job, where I manage heavy jet mod /overhaul, I work with these Amsafe Airbelts. They are usually only installed where there is no seat in front of them, such as at bulkheads ect. During a seat modification program, we "dropped" a seat a few inches and discharged the belt, resulting in minor injury. At a major aircraft mfg. last year, there was a discharge while assembling a seat, resulting in a fatality. They may help in a crash, but must be treated with kid gloves in maintenance, and obviously, EMS needs to be a bit worried when doing any rescue event on an equipped aircraft..if they even know it has one. I'm not so sure we are really ready for them in our type of aircraft. Again, just my 2 cents.
__________________
Bill E.
RV-4/N76WE
8A7 / Advance NC
|

10-04-2015, 04:44 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
|
|
I'm not sure why anyone would staple an explosive device to their chest?
If airbombs are so good, why are they forbidden in race cars?
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
|

10-04-2015, 05:33 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 621
|
|
Amsafe airbags work!
My son was a student, mechanic and flight instructor at the University of North Dakota (UND). Last year they had a student pilot stall and crash during a botched go-around in one of the 172's they use for primary training. The Amsafe airbag saved her life and she walked away with minor injuries. I will try to get pictures to post, but I think they were restricted.
I would install Amsafe's in the RV-10 I'm building without question. The DA-40 I used to own had them in the front seat - and the 40 has a 26G cockpit.
Although not completely applicable, the large reduction in fatalities in automobiles and trucks can partly be attributed to airbags.
Krea Ellis
|

10-04-2015, 05:42 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatanaPilot
...
Although not completely applicable, the large reduction in fatalities in automobiles and trucks can partly be attributed to airbags.
Krea Ellis
|
I would doubt those numbers because at about the same time airbombs were mandated so was seat belt usage. Not to mention improvements in vehicle design, brakes, suspension, etc. In short, to many things changed at the same time to make valid comparisons. The dark secret of the things is how many people they kill an injure every year by going off when the shouldn't. If I could disable the things in my truck, I would do it in a heartbeat!
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
|

10-04-2015, 06:36 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 621
|
|
To each his own
Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
If airbombs are so good, why are they forbidden in race cars?
|
Probably because race cars have a protective cocoon/roll cage, etc. for the drivers and an inadvertent deployment at 200 mph could cause more problems than they would solve. Plus the drivers of race cars knowingly take huge risks every time they go out on the track. I prefer to manage and mitigate the risk to myself and my passengers and I see airbag seatbelts as one tool in the arsenal.
Clearly, the certified market has embraced airbag seatbelts (80% of new airplanes come standard with them). One of the benefits of the experimental world is you can customize your airplane with much fewer restrictions.
I was simply asking if anyone knew if Amsafe had discontinued their work on developing their product for the experimental market.
Krea Ellis
|

10-04-2015, 08:25 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ga
Posts: 662
|
|
Two folks
Several months ago I pulled two drivers from two cars that just had a head-on collision on a dirt road. I was the first responder. Driver 1 had about 4 airbags hanging down from everywhere. I don't think the driver had a seat belt on. He suffered a concussion and kept repeating himself over and over and walking in circles. Apparently the air bags moved him around a little bit and his body was not happy.
Driver 2 had a shoulder belt on but no airbag. Not sure why it didn't go off. He had a laceration to lower right leg with what I think was the tibia exposed, his left arm with laceration with whatever that bone is called sticking out, broke ribs along the shoulder belt area, concussion, a face plant impression in the front window with glass in this face, a broke pelvis, and some spinal and other internal injuries. He got a helicopter ride to Grady and lived, but is now disabled. Driver 1 got a ambulance ride to the hospital, and recovered enough in a couple of days to drive over and visit with driver 2.
Given this and other things that I have seen over the years responding to stuff, it seems the airbags do well on the first impact. I'm not a advocate for or against, as everyone needs to evaluate the risk themselves. However, given the potential danger if not installed right, I am not sure if these things in airplanes will increase safety or not. Seems like a lot of engineering would need to be done before turning them loose on us experimental folks. But, if anyone could figure out how to do it, It would be us. Ingenuity seems to be hallmark of the experimental portion of aviation.
cj
__________________
Craig
RV-3 Sold
RV-4 Sold
RV-6a Sold
RV-9 IO-360 CS, Built and Flying
Aerostar 600A, Family Hotrod
|

10-05-2015, 09:08 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,145
|
|
I have a hard time reconciling this part...
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubbat
Driver 2 had a shoulder belt on but no airbag.
|
with this part...
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubbat
a face plant impression in the front window with glass in this face,
|
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid 
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
|

10-05-2015, 09:41 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,029
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
I would doubt those numbers because at about the same time airbombs were mandated so was seat belt usage. Not to mention improvements in vehicle design, brakes, suspension, etc. In short, to many things changed at the same time to make valid comparisons. The dark secret of the things is how many people they kill an injure every year by going off when the shouldn't. If I could disable the things in my truck, I would do it in a heartbeat!
|
Even with seatbelt use being mandated in so many places, it's astounding how many people don't wear them. In at least half the accidents I ran on the fire department, the occupants weren't wearing seatbelts. I personally know a couple of people who only put them on when their kids are in the car
That said, the number of accidental/unintended deployments is FAR outweighed by the number of fatalities and serious injuries prevented every year. Not wanting an airbag because you're worried it might go off when it shouldn't is like not wanting to wear a seat belt because you don't want to be trapped in a burning car, or because you'd "rather be thrown clear".
__________________
RV-7ER - finishing kit and systems installation
There are two kinds of fool in the world. The first says "this is old, and therefore good"; the second says "this is new, and therefore better".
|

10-05-2015, 09:49 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 1,475
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy
I have a hard time reconciling this part...
with this part...
|
Not hard to explain/understand at all. Many drivers wear their seat/shoulder belts quite loosely, an there is quite a bit of stretch in the belts as well. In addition, the human body when decelerated suddenly can flex and stretch more than you might imagine. Some car manufacturers use seat-belt tensioners to help reduce this problem.
I spent almost 30 years in emergency departments and I will tell you that while airbags cause some injuries, they are continually improving and the injuries that occur - as described in the referenced post - are orders of magnitude less severe than those without. My own daughter's life/health was saved by a side airbag when she totaled a car I had bought her 9 days earlier.
|
| Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:06 AM.
|