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  #31  
Old 12-21-2010, 04:03 PM
RV6_flyer's Avatar
RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NC25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post
Although I will not argue the practice in an RV, I am one of those CFIs that will "slap" you in a retractable of any kind. Way too many embarrassing moments involving inappropriate gear retractions on the ground. The rule at my airline was that nothing was touched until you were clear of the runway, not even light switches.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
The landing gear switch on my RV-6 (Yes, I have one) is on the upper left of the instrument panel. My flap switch (the very long one as on the original RV-6) is between the seats. Not much danger of confusing the two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjcthree View Post
Do you call down and welded on final?

Rick 90432
I USE to do what most of the others do. Was flying with a CFI that slapped my hand when I touched the flaps in my RV-6 because of it being a bad habit in a retract. I now NEVER touch anything till clear of the runway (except for opening the canopy on a HOT South West Summer day)

Mel is not the only guy that has a switch like that in a fixed gear airplane. I helped designed what Mel is talking about minus the horn to keep a friend in the habit for retracts. I gave him LEDs, resistors, switch, 9-volt battery clip, and Velcro to attach it to the airplane.

Yes I do call DOWN AND WELDED in the pattern. Boost pump, Gas, Undercarriage, Mixture, Prop (on short final)
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NC25 RV-6
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  #32  
Old 12-21-2010, 04:32 PM
m3tt5 m3tt5 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Biggsville ILL
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What should I do? I am keeping my RV6A at home on my grass strip that is 1600' or so and I alway's have left my flap's down after touch down. From what I have been reading here I should put them up as soon as I touch the grass? That will not make my roll out longer on landing but shorter? I do have manual flaps and it seem's like as soon as I touch the grass I slow down pretty fast. I just started landing here at home this fall so I am new to this short field stuff. So I fell like I am doing pretty good but I keep telling myself it will be different in the summer with less lift.
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  #33  
Old 12-21-2010, 05:17 PM
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John Clark John Clark is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 1,324
Default Don't change

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3tt5 View Post
What should I do? I am keeping my RV6A at home on my grass strip that is 1600' or so and I alway's have left my flap's down after touch down. From what I have been reading here I should put them up as soon as I touch the grass? That will not make my roll out longer on landing but shorter? I do have manual flaps and it seem's like as soon as I touch the grass I slow down pretty fast. I just started landing here at home this fall so I am new to this short field stuff. So I fell like I am doing pretty good but I keep telling myself it will be different in the summer with less lift.
The theory being expressed is that by raising the flaps, and killing some lift, you put more weight on the wheels. Which, on pavement, could be a factor. On grass, the "traction' is low to nonexistent (wet grass) but the trade out is the drag from the grass itself helps slow the airplane.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
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  #34  
Old 12-21-2010, 10:09 PM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3tt5 View Post
What should I do? I am keeping my RV6A at home on my grass strip that is 1600' or so and I alway's have left my flap's down after touch down. From what I have been reading here I should put them up as soon as I touch the grass? That will not make my roll out longer on landing but shorter? I do have manual flaps and it seem's like as soon as I touch the grass I slow down pretty fast. I just started landing here at home this fall so I am new to this short field stuff. So I fell like I am doing pretty good but I keep telling myself it will be different in the summer with less lift.
If you're making good landings on your grass strip now, don't worry about it, and don't change what works. But if you find (as I do) that slight bumps in the grass strip are enough to put you back in the pattern, you'll find that selecting flaps up as soon as you're established on the ground will keep you there.

Note: Don't select flaps up to try and fix a bad bounce... It'll just make the next one worse. Fix the bounce first, then when you're down smoothly bring the flaps up.
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1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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  #35  
Old 12-21-2010, 10:36 PM
the_other_dougreeves the_other_dougreeves is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas, TX (ADS)
Posts: 2,180
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Considering I will probably never fly a RG airplane and raising the gear in a RG glider takes a LOT of work (swap flying hands, twist hard to unlock gear lever, pull gear up), I will happily continue to dump the flaps on landing when needed.

TODR
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  #36  
Old 12-21-2010, 10:37 PM
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John Clark John Clark is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
But if you find (as I do) that slight bumps in the grass strip are enough to put you back in the pattern, you'll find that selecting flaps up as soon as you're established on the ground will keep you there.
If the bump puts you "back in the pattern," you might want to rethink your approach speed.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
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  #37  
Old 12-22-2010, 12:07 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post
If the bump puts you "back in the pattern," you might want to rethink your approach speed.
I agree, and i'm working it down as time passes. My home circuit has a very tight turn on one end, and i'm leery of taking that too slow right now... I don't mind admitting that I need the extra margin because i'm not that good yet.
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1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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  #38  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:34 AM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Location: North Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
I agree, and i'm working it down as time passes. My home circuit has a very tight turn on one end, and i'm leery of taking that too slow right now... I don't mind admitting that I need the extra margin because i'm not that good yet.
Rob,

Here is something that will give you a lot of confidence and safety when flying the tight, slow pattern:

http://thervjournal.com/liftreserve.htm

This is a great way to reduce approach speed while insuring a margin of safety.
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RV-6
Fokker D.VII replica
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  #39  
Old 12-22-2010, 10:39 AM
Steve Steve is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Roy, Utah
Posts: 1,144
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I land my 9A with full flaps and leave them fully extended for parking and tiedown. I use 10 degrees of flaps for takeoff. At the slow speed the 9s land, I don't feel raising the flaps to increase brake effectiveness is a concern.
Keeping the flaps down:
1. reduces the number of cycles on the flap motor
2. makes boarding the a/c much easier
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RV-9A
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  #40  
Old 12-22-2010, 12:17 PM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
Default It's all about approach and touch down speed....

I am a disciple of any type of AOA device for safe pattern work.

If the indicator is moving toward the no-fly zone I know more speed will be needed soon, the back pressure relaxed a bit in the turn and/or add power. It is the cats meow for making a minimum speed approach.

A few days ago it was 59 KIAS (well inside green AOA) across some tall trees and right on down to the flare point. Landed and made a turn off in 1500' minus about 600' to clear the trees and flare with very little braking. That will work only if touch down is at or near the 51 knot stall speed of my machine. No time to retract the flaps as they are electric so they stay at 40.

Most of the time I can't do it that short because of turbulence and/or cross wind, but once in a while in really smooth air, it is fun.

(All compliments of Dynon D10-A AOA)
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