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12-20-2010, 06:40 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,788
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Just to be clear on the GPS altitude readout in flight. My KLN94 has a serial input from the encoding altimeter. It also has a Baro set page on bootup and when using it for an IFR approach it prompts for the Baro setting. The KLN94 then reads out the encoders altitude being provided to the transponder, adjusted for Baro. When you have your IFR pitot static test done, one of the requirements is to provide a table of actual verses encoder reported altitude. If you copy that table and bring it with you in flight, you can correct for the errors of the encoder and get a pretty good verification of your altitude, verses your altimeter, which btw, should also have a cal table after a PS test. I always use this feature to verify I have a good altimeter setting when I am flying IFR.
With that said, this does you no good in terms of checking the static port in flight because you don't really know your actual altitude.
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12-20-2010, 10:04 AM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Boone, Iowa
Posts: 342
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Cleaveland Ports
The ports with the flat face (as in our old photo) are the old ones.
The new ports are domes so that they further protrude into the air stream.
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12-20-2010, 01:35 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 2,653
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Static and GPS
My BMA (and I'd bet most other panel mount systems) have a settings page for calibrating during the pitot/static check. The tech who did my initial check used his system to run my static system up to preset altitudes and we read the calibration numbers and entered them into an altitude table in my system. When done, he proceeded to do a normal check and my system checked out with 0 error at all altitudes. Hard to say about speed but my EFIS is in lockstep with my analog airspeed and my recorded indicated speeds are accurate enough for operations; at 8000+ feet I take airspeeds with a grain of salt anyway.
__________________
Patrick Kelley - Flagstaff, AZ
RV-6A N156PK - Flying too much to paint
RV-10 14MX(reserved) - Fuselage on gear
http://www.mykitlog.com/flion/
EAA Technical Counselor #5357
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12-20-2010, 06:33 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane Qld. Aust.
Posts: 2,271
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Flion and anyone else reading this.
READ THIS POST CAREFULLY
Do not assume your system is accurate just because you had your avionics checked by the avionics technician when you did your last AD Inst 8/9 or whatever you guys call it over there.
Your avionics as flion above points out above may be deadly accurate all the way to 20,000' and my Dynons were, better than the TSO'd Altimeter I have.
The problem is you are sitting in your hangar with a known static source testing your plane.
YOU ARE NOT dragging a static on a drogue 100 yards behind the plane comparing a "True and Known" static with the static in your aircraft at speed.
If you are not 100% sure of what I am saying go ask some test engineers to explain it better. Kevin Horton on this site is a classic for explaining it, search his name and threads.
Am I making myself clear. In flight static is not the same thing as when you get your altimetry checked out on the ground and can yield very big errors as I found when doing our test flights.
Oils aint Oils 
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12-20-2010, 07:24 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hingham Mass.
Posts: 64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rleffler
Phil,
I don't have the links handy, but Tim had several write ups on his site. If my memory is correct, I think he ended up with the Cleaveland product and was fundemental in Cleaveland coming up with their second iteration of the product.
bob
p.s. I have these installed too.
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I cant find the mentioned write ups. Can someone post the links ? Thank you.
__________________
RV-10
Wings
N71TR
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12-20-2010, 07:42 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 2,653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV10inOz
YOU ARE NOT dragging a static on a drogue 100 yards behind the plane comparing a "True and Known" static with the static in your aircraft at speed.
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Your point is well taken. My -6A is flying using the Van's method of pop-rivet static ports and I see no altitude error at speed. However, I'll be sure to double check when I get the -10 flying, as I will be using the flush ports.
__________________
Patrick Kelley - Flagstaff, AZ
RV-6A N156PK - Flying too much to paint
RV-10 14MX(reserved) - Fuselage on gear
http://www.mykitlog.com/flion/
EAA Technical Counselor #5357
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12-21-2010, 06:44 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV10inOz
Flion and anyone else reading this.
READ THIS POST CAREFULLY
Do not assume your system is accurate just because you had your avionics checked by the avionics technician when you did your last AD Inst 8/9 or whatever you guys call it over there.
Your avionics as flion above points out above may be deadly accurate all the way to 20,000' and my Dynons were, better than the TSO'd Altimeter I have.
The problem is you are sitting in your hangar with a known static source testing your plane.
YOU ARE NOT dragging a static on a drogue 100 yards behind the plane comparing a "True and Known" static with the static in your aircraft at speed.
If you are not 100% sure of what I am saying go ask some test engineers to explain it better. Kevin Horton on this site is a classic for explaining it, search his name and threads.
Am I making myself clear. In flight static is not the same thing as when you get your altimetry checked out on the ground and can yield very big errors as I found when doing our test flights.
Oils aint Oils 
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I don't think I ever implied that having a pitot static ifr check will verify the system is correctly reading in flight. I agree 100%, you can not calibrate nor check the system on the ground, other than for a leak and for the actual accuracy or the readout of the altimeter, the encoder and whatever other system you may have. The only way to verify the accuracy of the total system is in flight, and for altitude, with a known reference.
Last edited by Bill.Peyton : 12-21-2010 at 06:47 AM.
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12-21-2010, 07:08 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,516
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Known reference?
I too have installed the flush static source in the 10 and had them installed in my 8.
The 8 was "accurate" in all phases of flight measured against the GPS.
Since a GPS is the only available tool to use as a reference, would you agree that this is an acceptable method to verify the Static system in flight?
__________________
Ernst Freitag
RV-8 finished (sold)
RV-10 Flyer 600 plus hours
Running on E10 mogas
Don't believe everything you know.
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12-21-2010, 07:21 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
Posts: 7,496
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David is correct on this one....several people here have the misconception that just because they pass a static/pitot test on the ground that they are good to go. There is much more to it than that and you could have major errors in your IAS and ALT readings. Certified birds have the luxury of having well proven certified static sources. The system works for them but with us we need to take it on ourselves to ensure accuracy.
I went thru this process myself and it can be frustrating to no end. I can tell you that for an RV7, it is very sensitive to port position, port shape, port protrusion etc when the port is in the area specified by the plans. Very small changes can make big changes in the results.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV10inOz
Flion and anyone else reading this.
READ THIS POST CAREFULLY
Do not assume your system is accurate just because you had your avionics checked by the avionics technician when you did your last AD Inst 8/9 or whatever you guys call it over there.
Your avionics as flion above points out above may be deadly accurate all the way to 20,000' and my Dynons were, better than the TSO'd Altimeter I have.
The problem is you are sitting in your hangar with a known static source testing your plane.
YOU ARE NOT dragging a static on a drogue 100 yards behind the plane comparing a "True and Known" static with the static in your aircraft at speed.
If you are not 100% sure of what I am saying go ask some test engineers to explain it better. Kevin Horton on this site is a classic for explaining it, search his name and threads.
Am I making myself clear. In flight static is not the same thing as when you get your altimetry checked out on the ground and can yield very big errors as I found when doing our test flights.
Oils aint Oils 
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Last edited by Brantel : 12-21-2010 at 07:26 AM.
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12-21-2010, 07:43 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 4,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G34U
I cant find the mentioned write ups. Can someone post the links ? Thank you.
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http://myrv10.com/tips/flight_testin...rts/index.html
Pretty easy to find via search......
I suspect there are more detailed conversations on the RV-10 matronics list as well, but I didn't look for that history.
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