Cool Jugs

[zav6a]

I've notice a lack of discussion on Cool Jugs as an alternative to pure Lycoming. Seems they would be of interest to those that are considering alterantives. Other than an apparent lack of hours, they seem to address many shortcomings while maintaining the advantages of direct drive and use of a lot of proven technology. I happen to be a big believer in evolution v. revolution - particularly when a few hundred feet off the ground over rough terrain.

Any thoughts on the matter?

[cjensen]

i really like these guys, and have been watching them from their beginnings. it's a great idea, but there hasn't been an update in about three years as far as i know. if anyone knows more, fill us in. i'll still take the subie i'm planning at this point, but cool jugs/liquid power is really !

[osxuser]

I like their idea, but it is more expensive then the lycoming again, so why go with it? It seems to defy logic to take simple aircooled lyc, add water cooling (and therefore a radiator) and one more pump to fail, for what? More drag from water cooling and a few more HP, which you could probably pick up from a IO-390 with EI anyway. Again, I like their idea, but the price would have to go down quite a bit.

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by osxuser

I like their idea, but it is more expensive then the lycoming again, so why go with it? It seems to defy logic to take simple aircooled lyc, add water cooling (and therefore a radiator) and one more pump to fail, for what? More drag from water cooling and a few more HP, which you could probably pick up from a IO-390 with EI anyway. Again, I like their idea, but the price would have to go down quite a bit.

Why? So you can make it sound like a Subaru and have the head ache of dealing with a radiator installation, extra weight and increased drag.

Seriously

The RV is a tough nut to crack. There is little or no room in the compact cowl. The airframe is set in stone, bar any major custom structural changes. Water cooling is great for the engine but not the airframe installation and drag with out serious engineering, like the P-51. Unfortunately the P-51 was designed for a 380kt airplane, not a 180 kt plane.

If you read the Eggenfellner West thread, it progressed to a discussion of difficulties in plumbing a low drag radiator installation for any water cooled plane, in particular RV's.

I think it is cool (Pun Intended). if I had a glass pusher airplane, where I could make big huge NACA scoops and glass in some cool radiator plenum I would consider it if so inclined.

With that said I have been posting the cool jug link in several posts for over a year. Why no one has jumped I don't know. I recall the cost, $12K vs $3.6k for air-cooled jugs. I don't think that comes with the radiator, radiator installation, some but not all hoses, cowl mod and piston rings?

Until they get a whole kit for a spacific airframe that you can bolt in, its not going to be popular. For certified planes I don't see it. I don't see any mention of STC installations.

Yes its expensive @ $8.4k for just cylinders, which requires pistons and another couple $1000's for extra parts and 100's of hours of custom work with unknown results; I can see why it has not took off (pun intended). Too many unknowns.

Technical neat-ness is one thing but it has to be practical. I think cool jugs are well done. It is like an invention that is cool but has no application. However some day the application is found and the invention is brilliant. Until than it is just cool.

The last argument on the alternative engine front was the beauty of the ECU on a Subaru. Well as long as you have electrical power or wire does not fall off or computer fry. Add the fact you need to replace the O2 sender if you use aviation gas (about all you find at airports). Also before I get hate mail I checked the price of Mogas (car gas available at airports), and it is not universally cheaper than 100/100LL. In fact it is more expensive some times, but Mogas availability is spotty at best to nonexistent. I guess you can add lead savaging additive at fill up, but handling caustic chemicals is not my thing. It is like adding oil to the gas (like a two stroke) with Wankel engines.

Any way take care. George

[Captain_John]

But, WHOA!!!

Think about a liquid cooled -8 with a Mustang style belly scoop!!!

...anyone got a copy of Photoshop!?!

CJ

[rv72004]

Cool Jugs would be good in a very harsh environment. ie lots of taxing, high heat, very low temps ,altitude etc. not for us weekend types.

[zav6a]

Would not expect a crowd of folks that 1. Fly, and 2. Fly experimental aircraft, to be so practical!

I guess all thiings considered, it will be difficult to defy the logic of air cooling for machinery that by default moves through air at 180kt!

For low hp, recreational aircraft that routinely make 2000 hours anyway (over 10 to 20 years!) it is hard to make all the maintenance arguments of LC. If I was flying one of the high HP, turbocharged Contis or Lycomings that seem to go through cyls regularly, I would be dying for something to extend component life and provide a bit of a margin for temp and detonation.

It would be cool though. I can see that -8, painted up like a 51.......

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by Captain_John

But, WHOA!!!
Think about a liquid cooled -8 with a Mustang style belly scoop!!!
...anyone got a copy of Photoshop!?! CJ

WHOA!!!! The P-51 is the state of the art for water cooling radiator installation. The RV is not really designed for it, but certainly you could make some adaptation. I have said it many times. However most of the time folks just stuff a radiator in anyplace they can.

Originally Posted by rv72004

Cool Jugs would be good in a very harsh environment. ie lots of taxing, high heat, very low temps ,altitude etc. not for us weekend t
ypes.

Absolutly, I can see jump planes that do high power climbs and low power quick descents to get another load of jumpers. Banner towers that go real slow, where speed is not the goal. G

[rv8ch]

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot

Absolutly, I can see jump planes that do high power climbs and low power quick descents to get another load of jumpers.

Better to buy a Pilatus PC-6. They are turbine powered, and make outstanding jump planes. Problem is many of the guys that fly them don't play well with others. They like to take off on taxiways, ignore traffic in the pattern, dive for the threshold from 15,000' - stuff like that. Anytime I hear on the radio "parachute activity in the area", I'm not watching for chutes, but some cowboy diving at 8000 fpm for the runway. Yippee-kay-ay!

[N941WR]

Bump.

Cool Jugs were brought up in another thread and I asked the author to remove the post as I was trying to keep that thread focused on why or why not alt engines, not on what people thought of Cool Jugs.

Thanks JD.

Only I didn't want to lose his post. JD was curious what the consensus was of the above mentioned Cool Jugs. (Keep it clean guys!)

After looking over their web site I can see why they are not very popular. $17K for a set of four jugs for an O-360 and $21K for a set for an (I)O-540 is crazy. Heck, you can buy a lot of cylinders for those prices.