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  #81  
Old 09-22-2010, 02:15 PM
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N8RV N8RV is offline
 
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Location: Elkhart, Indiana
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Boy, am I glad I built a taildragger!

Now, before anyone gets his knickers in a twist over that ...

Like a lot of low-time TD builders, I had some fears and apprehensions with building one. The mystique of conventional gear airplanes and the horror stories of ground loops can cause anyone to hesitate. However, when I started building, I still had enough ego left to tackle the unknown and overcome the fear.

Now that I'm a high-timer (I have over 100 hours now!), I can pontificate about the finer aspects of taildragges vs nosedraggers.

When I owned and flew a Yankee, I wasn't smart enough to work hard at keeping the weight off the nosewheel while taxiing, and it was never a problem. However, I'd been warned about the Yankee's propensity for PIOs, and went to great lengths to avoid getting into one.

As has been well-stated by others on this thread, Van's designs are, like all aircraft designs, compromises. The RVs are designed for simplicity, economy, strength and speed. To accomplish those ends, some things have to be sacrificed. I can cruise faster than my friend in his C-206, but he can haul several people and their luggage. I can only do that one at a time.

Likewise, the front end of most spam cans is more rugged than an RV's, designed to take more abuse than an RV -- including landing on rougher surfaces and absorbing that abuse -- but that strength comes at the cost of complexity, expense and speed.

When I was learning to fly Smokey, I had several moments where I wondered if I'd have been better off building an -8A. The nosewheel issue had never occurred to me. Looking back (now that I'm an accomplished and masterful taildragger tamer ), I realize that driving a nosedragger has limitations, too. Different from those of the taildragger, but limitations nonetheless.

I fully understand and appreciate the dilemma and the desire to make the nose gear a *little* stronger, but maybe the best solution is to refine our piloting techniques and accept the limitations of the design, just as taildragger pilots accept that their landings may be more demanding on some days than those of nosedragger pilots.

I think we could ALL use some refinement of our landing techniques. I'd bet lunch that the vast majority of us land at much higher speeds than necessary. I know I do. I'm gonna work on that ...
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  #82  
Old 09-22-2010, 02:30 PM
Bevan Bevan is offline
 
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Location: BC
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Default been done.

A redesign has been successfully completed and flown. Apparently working out very well on "less than perfect" strips. The mod seems straight forward enough (to me), only adds a few pounds. Maybe someone wants to mass produce these? I would buy one for sure, as I'm contemplating doing one for myself.

BTW, many, if not most, of the nose-overs (as I recall) have occured on rollout at the speed that the elevator has no effective usefulness. Some even occured while taxiing. Until we can find a way to slow to a taxi without going through this translational speed range, we will have to deal with this issue.

See http://mesawood.info/myrv7a/building/newgear.htm

Bevan
RV7A not flying yet.
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  #83  
Old 09-22-2010, 02:45 PM
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danielhv danielhv is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan View Post
A redesign has been successfully completed and flown.

See http://mesawood.info/myrv7a/building/newgear.htm

Bevan
RV7A not flying yet.
And there ya have it folks!! Problem solved!

Very interesting write up... Its amazing the size difference in the side by side view!
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  #84  
Old 09-22-2010, 02:57 PM
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RV7Ron RV7Ron is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan View Post
A redesign has been successfully completed and flown. Apparently working out very well on "less than perfect" strips. The mod seems straight forward enough (to me), only adds a few pounds. Maybe someone wants to mass produce these? I would buy one for sure, as I'm contemplating doing one for myself.

BTW, many, if not most, of the nose-overs (as I recall) have occured on rollout at the speed that the elevator has no effective usefulness. Some even occured while taxiing. Until we can find a way to slow to a taxi without going through this translational speed range, we will have to deal with this issue.

See http://mesawood.info/myrv7a/building/newgear.htm

Bevan
RV7A not flying yet.
...some ingenuity at work. Love to see this sort of stuff...bravo to the designer if it indeed solves the problem.


in·ge·nu·i·ty

   /ˌɪndʒəˈnuɪti, -ˈnyu-/ [in-juh-noo-i-tee, -nyoo-]

–noun, plural -ties for 3.

1. the quality of being cleverly inventive or resourceful; inventiveness: a designer of great ingenuity.

2. cleverness or skillfulness of conception or design: a device of great ingenuity.

3. an ingenious contrivance or device
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  #85  
Old 09-22-2010, 02:58 PM
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FresnoR FresnoR is offline
 
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I have seen this before. Looks interesting, but remember the designer replaced the original nose gear fork and tire with a modified RV10 fork and 500 x 5 tire. Nothing was done with the gear leg, and some would argue the added weight and size of the modification would only add to the stress on the leg.
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  #86  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:00 PM
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RVbySDI RVbySDI is offline
 
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Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielhv View Post
And there ya have it folks!! Problem solved!

Very interesting write up... Its amazing the size difference in the side by side view!
I sure wish it would be that easy. Just install a larger fork and a larger wheel and be done with it. However, if you read through all of the details of Bob Trumpfheller's page you will find this link:
http://mesawood.info/myrv7a/building...armodinfo.html

The link provides some discussion of the possibility of creating more bending forces after the mod. Given this, Bob's mod may not necessarily solve the problem.
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  #87  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:02 PM
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RV7Ron RV7Ron is offline
 
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the nose gear mod is only a 3.1 lb delta...thats very reasonable. I would take that in a second if it fixes the problem. And you get more ground clearance as well.
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RV-7 'Tip Up'
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IO-375/WW 200G-CS/SkyView/Dual P-mags
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  #88  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:04 PM
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LifeisGood LifeisGood is offline
 
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Location: Loganville, Georgia
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Default landing distance.......

[quote=prkaye;469469]... but unfortunately this makes my landing-roll ridiculously long... like 3000 feet! ...... but if I don't touch the brakes I just roll and roll and roll. [/avy QUOTE]


I wouldnt worry too much about your "ridiculously long" landing roll...unless your runway is shorter than 3000 feet... I dont use my brakes unless I have to...too expensive!!...and normaly use atleast 3000 feet before getting somewhat slow enough to make a turn off the runway.
I'm pleased to report that 3 years of fun RV-ing, I have yet to replace a single brake pad.

And as for landing speed and idle prop rpm, my Catto needs 600-650 to run smoothly, and...flame suit on...I stop looking at my airspeed-o-meter once I cross the numbers. I cross them at 75 kts - plus or minus a few cuz I'm no Chuck Yeager - then bring the throttle to just above idle -maybe 1000 rpm, and let the ol' girl land when she's ready. No reason to force her to stop flying - she doesnt do that to me, so I don't do that to her. Disclamer - I'm fond of the wheel landings, so that increases my landing speed a touch. Ok, flame suit off...
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  #89  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:27 PM
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Jkkinz Jkkinz is offline
 
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Boy this discussion is reminiscent of the many 2008 ng discussions when the A's seemed like they were going noseover far too often. I was as interested in the safety of the ng as is anyone else and I even sent a long letter to Van's voicing my concerns and asking them what they plan to do to correct the ng. I got an immediate response from Gus that let me know that they do monitor the forum and they were indeed aware of our concerns.

I am confident that the fork design change was in direct response to our concerns. So those that think that VAN's is oblivious are just wrong. They are watching and listening.

Since I am a very slow builder, I read the forum on a regular basis and I haven't heard of near as many ng mishaps since the fork design change was made. Their design team no doubt is aware of any design trade offs necessary in the A's and feel secure that the design is safe as long as you use good piloting skills and don't push it too far.

Just as a side note I have the new fork and I have replaced the Van's nosewheel with the Grove wheel.

JMHO, take it for what it is worth
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  #90  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:27 PM
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FresnoR FresnoR is offline
 
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So just for arguments' sake, what would it take to get the RV-10 nose gear assembly on a 7 or 9?

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