Buy or build O-360?

Don Patrick · #1 09-16-2010, 10:38 PM

Morning folks,

I'm a ways off yet to be buying or building an 0-360. I'm just researching and curious about everyones thoughts on either building an experimental kit engine like the Titan 0-360, or buying a new 0-360 or buying a used 0-360 and having it refurbished . I'm just a poor cop with 2 kids (my dear wife has allowed me to build!!) and am trying to build a plane over time.....I know that I will not settle for anything less than an 0-360, don't need or want an IO or constant speed for my RV-8.

Any comments, input, or good sources for an 0-360 that hasn't been "spanked" too hard or has had a prop strike would be welcomed. I have lots of time and want to research this as much as possible and value everyones input.

I am in Canada, but have no problem driving anywhere for a good deal. I do know the costs involved, but if I can save a little with a good engine...all is good!

Thanks

Don

pierre smith · #2 09-17-2010, 05:11 AM

I, too, was poor and going through a divorce but I found a good engine by word of mouth, that had been taken out of a flipped Mooney, with 600 total hours.

My buddy found a good engine at Wentworth Aircraft salvage for $8,500 and it's flying in his -4....great engine.

What most builders don't realize, is that most don't fly more than 100 hours a year, so an engine with 1200 hours still has around 1000 hours left, during which time they can save for overhaul and learn how to do that themselves,

Best,

dav1111 · #3 09-17-2010, 05:31 AM

For my RV-7 build project I bought an IO-360 ECI kit engine through an A&P who has a builder assist center here in Lubbock and over a weekend we (mostly he) put the engine together. With all new accessories I have less than $23,000.00 in the engine. An O-360 should come out a few thousand cheaper. If or when I need another IO-360 I will do it again.

In contrast I bought a core engine for my RV-10 (IO-540) broke it down, sent off all the major parts to certified engine repair shops for overhaul, bought new bearings and non-reuseable parts, along with new ECI cylinder assemblies. The total cost for the overhaul came to just under $25,000.00. I ended up with a zero time engine that so far has given me really good service. If ECI ever come out with a kit 540 engine they will get my business verses a core rebuild. The biggest problem I ran into with the core re-build was the company I bought my core from, who guaranteed the crankshaft as being good tried to pawn off an airboat crankshaft on me that had been overhauled and wouldn't pass and then tried to pawn off an overhauled crankshaft that had a yellow tag but no reputable shop would have signed it off. After putting my lawyer skills to work and threatening to sue they made good on the crankshaft but if I had not been an attorney I am reasonable sure that I would have gotten taken. A replacement core crankshaft for a 540 engine would have doubled the cost of the core engine purchase. Buying a core engine from anybody other than a reputable company who guarantees the crankshaft is a really big gamble. Also buying an overhauled engine from an overhauler that doesn't has a proven track record in the RV community is also running a pretty big risk. Having worked with two really good engine re-builders I have learned a lot of things that can go wrong with an engine re-build if not done really well.

Hope this helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Patrick

Morning folks,

I'm a ways off yet to be buying or building an 0-360. I'm just researching and curious about everyones thoughts on either building an experimental kit engine like the Titan 0-360, or buying a new 0-360 or buying a used 0-360 and having it refurbished . I'm just a poor cop with 2 kids (my dear wife has allowed me to build!!) and am trying to build a plane over time.....I know that I will not settle for anything less than an 0-360, don't need or want an IO or constant speed for my RV-8.

Any comments, input, or good sources for an 0-360 that hasn't been "spanked" too hard or has had a prop strike would be welcomed. I have lots of time and want to research this as much as possible and value everyones input.

I am in Canada, but have no problem driving anywhere for a good deal. I do know the costs involved, but if I can save a little with a good engine...all is good!

Thanks

Don

eatenbyagrue · #4 09-17-2010, 11:40 AM

I'm also considering engine options, and it seems like a pretty attractive to find a proven mid-time O-360. There's something to be said for not having to break in an engine as well as test the plane.

Question for the group, what kind of due diligence is appropriate for an engine that seems to be a good deal? I am hoping to eventually find an engine with less than 1000 hours... if I were to find one with logs, no prop strike, proper storage, what would I have an A&P look for to check it out? When I get it, what kind of inspections make sense before I fly?

More commentary much appreciated.

Josh

pierre smith · #5 09-17-2010, 01:57 PM

Have him check for AD compliance e.g. the oil pump on most older models had to be replaced and an oil hole drilled in the rear case...not a big deal, really....we had an A@P buddy of ours do ours on the 0-360, while I assisted.

A borescope inspection of the cylinders and a compression check are needed.
If you could find one still mounted on an airplane and see it run is a big advantage as well.

Best,

koda2 · #6 09-17-2010, 02:17 PM

In addition to the comments above, I would suggest that any first time engine buyer or builder be very familiar with (aka read thoroughly) two sources:

Sky Ranch Engineering Manual

Lycoming Flyer Key Reprints.

Just my opinion.
Dave A.
6Abuild

trib · #7 09-19-2010, 05:48 PM

Don,

I have 80 hrs now on the O-360 kit engine I built and have had zero issues. I'd never built an aircraft engine before, but throughly researched (IMHO) and feel that anyone who can build an airframe can definitely bolt an engine together. Here is the info from my experience:

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ght=kit+engine

Greg Arehart · #8 09-19-2010, 07:13 PM

Don,

IMO, it really depends on your predilection and budget. Like Dav1111, I built an engine through a builder assist program at a reputable engine shop (Eagle Engines, Redding, CA). Took about a day and a half. I liked doing this as I now have intimate knowledge of the engine and would not hesitate to pull it apart if necessary. And it's new (or was before I started flying it). Mine was a Superior, but any of these places probably do a really nice job. I would do it again if I needed/wanted a new engine.

If you're more limited by budget, a used engine with a proper inspection is just as good of a way to go, especially if you have time to find a good buy.

greg

apkp777 · #9 09-19-2010, 07:34 PM

I built my Titan. I'd do it again.

Don Patrick · #10 10-06-2010, 05:45 PM

Thanks for all of the great information folks. I've come across a couple of engines and here are the details:

O-360 Prop strike at landing at low rpm, so a bit of work with that one. Crankshaft has been checked and dialed within limits.

2 O-320's, twin was doing circuits for 3 hours, ran out of gas and forced onto the field..engines were windmilling on impact..

IO-320 out of fuel, off field landing and windmilling...

All are "reasonably" priced ($6-7, grand) with the obvious checks and balances, with the potential to replace some parts (which I expect for the O-360).

I know a few AME's that can do the work at a reasonable cost, so, buying new won't be happening. Realistically, I'd be putting hopefully $100-150 hours a year on it.

I'm told that a lycoming crankshaft may bend with a prop strike, but may still be good to go after the necessary checks??

I shouldn't have said that I would not move from an O-360...I may be persuaded into an O-320..

Thoughts?

I have a lot to learn about engines...that's a given!

Cheers.

Don