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  #11  
Old 09-02-2010, 09:27 PM
Greg Arehart's Avatar
Greg Arehart Greg Arehart is offline
 
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Well, the box will be shipped back to Dynon tomorrow. By the way, Bob Mills updated his this afternoon with no problem (and I'm actually using his D100 for a trip this weekend because mine's TU). Here's the (short) story: Connected to D100, checked firmware version (I do this to confirm that I have good connectivity). Ran the backup program and got good backups (I think). Started the update from 5.2 to 5.4. While watching, I kept seeing errors go by, and the program would redo the errors, then go onto the next sectors or blocks or whatever. Maybe 10% into the update, it just failed with the yellow screen of death displaying. Tried reloading software, restarting update program etc. all to no avail - problem seemed to be that I could no longer connect to the D100. Called Mike at Dynon who advised to kill all power to unit (including battery backup) and start over. Did this and established connectivity, tried software update again and got errors and crash again. Tried a couple more times, no luck. Called Mike back and he was looking into what might be the cause.

Meanwhile, I went to work for a couple hours. I redownloaded the Dynon Support program, thinking that the original might have been corrupted or something. Headed back to the airport later this afternoon. Dynon dead - stone cold hard dead. Checked all my electrical connections, power etc. Not a wiring issue that I could tell. Pulled internal battery. 16.5V so battery is not dead.

No clue at this point what the problem is/was, or why D100 went dead. Frustrating to say the least, as I am headed to CO from Reno tomorrow and was hoping to test the new autopilot features. Fortunately, Bob Mills lent me his D100 for the trip, so at least I can still go, but his D100 is running 5.4 and my D120 is running 5.2, so they're not talking. I've no clue what the autopilot servos are running at this point.

Not the end of the world.... I'm still planning on testing the new configuration of my APRS.

My lesson: don't try updating software the night before a trip....

greg
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  #12  
Old 09-03-2010, 12:36 AM
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rvmills rvmills is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Arehart View Post

My lesson: don't try updating software the night before a trip....

greg
Or on Christmas Eve! AMHIK...that's the one time I had to send my box back...of course I couldn't get an RMA# for several days (something about the guys at Dynon wanting Christmas off! ) It was all my bad, so lesson learned.

After trying many things upon arrival to resuscitate Greg's "brick", as Brian appropriately named it, we threw in the towel, got the RMA and did the swap.

My update to 5.4 went through first try, as Greg mentioned. Different computer, different cable than Greg's. My cable is a Radio Shack USB to serial converter, and Greg uses a USB to 2.5mm (maybe 3.5mm) jack that he wired up quite slickly in his panel. We looked at that jack to see if it or the wires were suspect, but all looked good, and updates have been successful via that jack several times in the past.

One difference in our procedures was that after detecting firmware (I do that to check comms too), Greg did the backup via the separate backup selection in the drop down menu, then started the update separately. I just went straight to the update selection, and said yes to "Do you want to create an update". Using that method, after the backup is saved, the update automatically runs. It shouldn't make a difference, but its just noted FYI.

Greg will run my D100 non-networked into his DSAB for a couple of reasons. First, we did not want to try a 5.4 update on his EMS120, just in case his cable or computer was the cause of the failure, and risk him losing his EMS and his CO trip. Second, he would have had to run the update program via his computer on my EFIS to get to his servos, and we were concerned about making a second EFIS brick. And third, if he configured his network with my D100 as the bus master, he'd have to redo all of that again with his unit (he may have to anyway after the fix), and I'd have to do it with mine upon return (so he saved me some work!) He'll have to click off the DSAB warning upon start up, and won't have an AP for the trip, but he'll at least have an EFIS and an EMS, and his 496 was communicating with my EFIS, so he'll have an HSI for the VFR X-C.

Just figured I'd dogpile to give folks some more data points, including my successful update to 5.4 for my D100, D10A, AP-74 and two SV-32 Servos.

Question for you Brian in a seperate post to follow.

Have a great trip Greg!!

Cheers,
Bob
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RV-6 "Rocket Six" N49VM
Reno-Stead, NV (KRTS)
President/Sport 47/49, Sport Class Air Racing
President, Formation Flying Inc (FFI)
Flight Lead, Lightning Formation Airshows
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  #13  
Old 09-03-2010, 01:24 AM
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rvmills rvmills is offline
 
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Brian,

Some great info here from you! I read the manual last night before I did my upgrade, and still have a few questions. I need to go on the Dynon forum to see if there are further explanations for the adjustments, but hope I can ask a few here since you're just out of beta-land. I will spend some good time testing and tweaking mine as well (when it gets back from CO), but thought I'd try to leverage your recent experience (I know I won't be alone in that desire! )

I see you've dropped the Tq of the SV-42, then gone up on the pitch gain. Is that opposite adjustments? I know you may not need all the Tq from the bigger servo, but wondering if the two adjustments are similar...perhaps P gain is micro Tq? Or is P Gain an error tolerance adjustment for how far off alt before a correction is made in level flight.

ALT GAIN also seems to be an error tolerance setting. but this time for level offs. Is that how you see it? VSI GAIN seems similar, though the adjustments are opposite (whether to INC or DEC for overshoots or early levels). Did you get more detail on these adjustments?

Pull Rate makes sense...that's been one of my dislikes at times, so this may be a very nice tool!

The two G Error adjustments confused me a bit. For gain, still trying to figure out the difference between "vertical speed changes are not smoothed enough" and "ride is too harsh", which call for opposite adjustments. Do you have a "dumb pilot Bob" way of describing that adjustment?

The last one G Error G limit, seems self explanatory as well, and appears to be the cousin of pull rate.

I noticed you adjusted the first two and left the others alone, and that the manual says to adjust them top-down, and stop moving down when you are happy (paraphrase). Did you find that the AP pitch mode was vastly (or nicely) improved out of the box on the default settings, and those minor tweaks were all it took to make you smile big? In other words, did just adding the new adjustments and using the defaults found in beta testing make for a large leap in pitch performance? I figure you played with all the settings along the beta trail...did the lower ones have smaller effects than upper settings, or did they have a more dramatic impact, and are better left alone unless really necessary?

I know that's a lot of questions (probably over-anal-yzing), and much may be answered when I fly it, but I appreciate any illumination/clarification you may have from your test experience. If there is a Dynon discussion that adds detail to the manual, please do point me (us) there.

Thanks for sharing your numbers and your experience! You da man!!

Cheers,
Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel View Post
Most of the AP improvements in 5.4 are related to improving pitch axis performance... Here are the new parameters they gave us access to:

 Pitch Gain: Use only after sensitivity is set as well as it can be. Increase gradually if airplane does not settle on altitude. The default setting is 20.

 Altitude Gain (ALT GAIN): Use only after sensitivity and all of the above settings are set as well as they can be. Increase gradually if airplane levels off too soon. Reduce gradually if airplane overshoots altitudes after climbs and descents. The default setting is 6.

 Pull Rate: Use only after sensitivity and all of the above settings are set as well as they can be. Controls the rate the AP will push or pull when changing vertical speed. The default setting is 10.

 VSI Gain: Use only after sensitivity and all of the above settings are set as well as they can be. Increase gradually if overshooting altitude after climbs or descents, decrease if rounding out too early. The default setting is 15.

 G Error Gain (G ERR GAIN): Use only after sensitivity and all of the above settings are set as well as they can be. Increase gradually if vertical speed changes are not smoothed enough; Decrease if ride is too harsh. G Error Gain adjustments affect the most noticeable changes while the aircraft is in turbulence. The default setting is 10.

 G Error Limit (G ERR LIM): Use only after sensitivity and all of the above settings are set as well as they can be. Controls the max additional G the autopilot will push or pull to control vertical speed (up to the G limiter). G Error Limit adjustments affect the most noticeable changes while the aircraft is in turbulence. The default setting is 25.

Here are my settings I have after much testing. Remember I have an RV7 bone stock with an SV42 pitch axis servo:
  • Pitch Max Torque: 60%
  • Pitch Sensitivity: 18
  • Pitch Gain: 22
  • Altitude Gain (ALT GAIN): 15
  • Pull Rate: 10
  • VSI Gain:15
  • G Error Gain (G ERR GAIN): 10
  • G Error Limit (G ERR LIM): 25
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Bob Mills
RV-6 "Rocket Six" N49VM
Reno-Stead, NV (KRTS)
President/Sport 47/49, Sport Class Air Racing
President, Formation Flying Inc (FFI)
Flight Lead, Lightning Formation Airshows
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  #14  
Old 09-03-2010, 05:19 AM
Brantel's Avatar
Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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Bob, See reply below in blue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvmills View Post
Brian,

Some great info here from you! I read the manual last night before I did my upgrade, and still have a few questions. I need to go on the Dynon forum to see if there are further explanations for the adjustments, but hope I can ask a few here since you're just out of beta-land. I will spend some good time testing and tweaking mine as well (when it gets back from CO), but thought I'd try to leverage your recent experience (I know I won't be alone in that desire! )

I see you've dropped the Tq of the SV-42, then gone up on the pitch gain. Is that opposite adjustments? I know you may not need all the Tq from the bigger servo, but wondering if the two adjustments are similar...perhaps P gain is micro Tq? Or is P Gain an error tolerance adjustment for how far off alt before a correction is made in level flight.

I went with the SV-42 because some people reported that the SV-32 was not strong enough for an RV7. I have found that the SV-42 is plenty strong at 60% of its rating which is less than a SV-32 at 100% torque so I don't know what to think of that.....If I were doing it again, I would just go with the SV-32.

The torque setting is just that...How much torque are you gonna allow the servo to produce. I set mine by feel of how much force I was comfortable with to cause the servo to slip if I wanted to override the servo with the stick. If you set it too low, the servo will slip all the time causing it to appear mushy and unable to control the airplane very well. If you set it too high, it will be harder to override it if you wanted to.

Pitch gain is a different creature but all of these things interact with each other to some degree. Sensitivity is the overall gain of the system. Pitch gain helps the system settle on an altitude instead of yo-yoing around an altitude.

ALT GAIN also seems to be an error tolerance setting. but this time for level offs. Is that how you see it?

Yep, it allows you to tweak the approach the system takes to settling on the setpoint. To agressive and it will overshoot, not and it will take forever to get there. It has a smoothing effect on how it gets there.

VSI GAIN seems similar, though the adjustments are opposite (whether to INC or DEC for overshoots or early levels). Did you get more detail on these adjustments?

Similar to the ALT gain just using a different sensor to help you get to the same result.

Pull Rate makes sense...that's been one of my dislikes at times, so this may be a very nice tool!

It is nice..It allows you to tweak your ride...

The two G Error adjustments confused me a bit. For gain, still trying to figure out the difference between "vertical speed changes are not smoothed enough" and "ride is too harsh", which call for opposite adjustments. Do you have a "dumb pilot Bob" way of describing that adjustment?

Pull Rate is the RATE at which it will try and correct and G Error gain is equal of sensitivity for trying to correct the error.

The last one G Error G limit, seems self explanatory as well, and appears to be the cousin of pull rate.

Yep, just sets the limit on how hard the AP will pull when it needs to quickly correct for some disturbance. (Wing removal prevention device) It puts a cap on PULL RATE and G error Gain.

I noticed you adjusted the first two and left the others alone, and that the manual says to adjust them top-down, and stop moving down when you are happy (paraphrase). Did you find that the AP pitch mode was vastly (or nicely) improved out of the box on the default settings, and those minor tweaks were all it took to make you smile big?

Yes, the defaults produced a much better ride than normal. I was smiling before I ever changed anything. The tweaks I made made it that much more better....I would start with the defaults and follow the rules listed to tweak yours in. My guess is all airplanes will have slightly different numbers in the end due to the variables and the taste of the pilot.

In other words, did just adding the new adjustments and using the defaults found in beta testing make for a large leap in pitch performance?

Yes they did! I don't know for sure but I suspect that Dynon rewrote their entire Pitch control algorithm. I don't think they just gave us access to new parameters, I doubt their original algorithms were as sophisticated as they are now. This is just my guess and I have no idea what Dynon did internally so take this comment as a grain of salt...

I figure you played with all the settings along the beta trail...did the lower ones have smaller effects than upper settings, or did they have a more dramatic impact, and are better left alone unless really necessary?

Follow their directions in order to make the tweaking go faster. Work from the top down... All of these things tend to interact with each other and it will take you some time to understand how each parameter "feels" in real life. I had no reason to mess with the last four cuz they worked fine for me at the defaults. No reason you can't experiment with em though. Just be carefull with the G Error Limit. Most likely the servo would slip before damage was done but you need to be carefull with that one.

I know that's a lot of questions (probably over-anal-yzing), and much may be answered when I fly it, but I appreciate any illumination/clarification you may have from your test experience. If there is a Dynon discussion that adds detail to the manual, please do point me (us) there.

I am sure there will be more public talk as people explore this new capability. The Alpha and Beta versions worked so well out of the box that there is not much additional to add that you have not already seen. Most of the tweaks by Dynon were minor fixes Alpha to Release.

Thanks for sharing your numbers and your experience! You da man!!

Cheers,
Bob
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Last edited by Brantel : 09-03-2010 at 05:23 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-03-2010, 06:55 AM
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Greg Arehart Greg Arehart is offline
 
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Brian and others,

In reviewing my post, it might seem that I am beating on Dynon. I'm not. I mostly wanted to post so that folks are more cautious than I am in doing the update. I am really looking forward to trying the new autopilot software and just got unlucky with this upgrade (or maybe there's a fundamental problem with my D100 that needs attention anyway). Guess I'll just have to plan another trip to test it when it returns.....

cheers,
greg
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  #16  
Old 09-03-2010, 12:25 PM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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No problem Greg, they will get you fixed up!

Flew from Kmor to Kchs today. AP worked great!!!
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Check out my RV-10 builder's BLOG
RV-10, #41942, N?????, Project Sold
---------------------------------------------------------------------
RV-7/TU, #72823, N159SB
Lyc. O-360 carbed, HARTZELL BA CS Prop, Dual P-MAGs, Dual Garmin G3X Touch
Track N159SB (KK4LIF)
Like EAA Chapter 1494 on Facebook
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  #17  
Old 09-03-2010, 06:01 PM
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rvmills rvmills is offline
 
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Thanks Brian...great info...again!

I'll do as you did, try the default, and work top down as needed to dial it in. I don't need to play with the settings just to see what they do. Well, I like to tinker, but I know to not fix what aint broke!! I'll respect that g-limit setting as well...no need to allow it to yank and bank...that's my job!

Thanks again!

Greg, how'd things work enroute to CO today?

Cheers,
Bob
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RV-6 "Rocket Six" N49VM
Reno-Stead, NV (KRTS)
President/Sport 47/49, Sport Class Air Racing
President, Formation Flying Inc (FFI)
Flight Lead, Lightning Formation Airshows
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  #18  
Old 09-03-2010, 10:10 PM
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Greg Arehart Greg Arehart is offline
 
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Bob

Your dynon worked fine though the AOA seems set too high . Aprs worked fantastic the entire trip if you check the track it got hits everywhere except on the ground. Glad we changed settings!
Headed for LXV tomorrow and will meet up with Ron Lee enroute at Salida and then do some photos enroute to LXV. Having lots of fun!

Greg
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  #19  
Old 09-04-2010, 07:25 PM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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This is not a great photo but this is Greg's plane heading north in the Buena Vista (KAEJ), Colorado area heading to Leadville.


Last edited by Ron Lee : 09-05-2010 at 06:29 PM.
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  #20  
Old 09-16-2010, 06:17 PM
Chris Hill Chris Hill is offline
 
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Has anyone used the autopilot to fly an approach? I just used mine today to fly the ILS and it seemed to S turn down the localizer course. I have yet to adjust all the gains and such, so they are still stock.

Hand flying the ILS, the dynon worked very well and I'd be comfortable going to mins...I just need to get the autopilot tied in correctly
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