Don't Dump those flaps!!

[Radomir]

Andy, I'll only disagree on the regulatory aspect. I don't want the FAA to be regulating this.. let 'em put it whereever they want. I'd never do it, but that's a far cry from being being forbidden by rules and regulations..

[Phlyan Pan]

Am I the only one who really loves manual flaps and trim?

[Andy Hill]

I only commented on the "regulatory" for 2 reasons:
1. Over "here" we have a regulator (LAA). Whilst we all bitch & moan about them, they do sometimes have a point, and sometimes protect us from ourselves
2. If there is a debate on here about something, what the regulator might say, or has enforced in similar situations, might weigh in a builders' decision as to whether to do something or not.

i.e. I am not suggesting that a regulator rules on this for homebuilts.

Andy
UK

[Andy Hill]

Am I the only one who really loves manual flaps and trim?

No... 8 has manual trim, flaps is not an option. 3 will be manual both

Andy

[Mel]

Originally Posted by Phlyan Pan

Am I the only one who really loves manual flaps and trim?

With my flap handle between the seats and my trim knob at the forward edge of the spar carry through, I've never had this type of incident.

[Mel]

Originally Posted by Andy Hill

My concern would be does this work when a fuel / ignition / pilot problem causes an engine to run down at a critical moment, and they go for a "restart". I cannot see any authority being keen on a system that relies on a secondary action to "enable" the start switch to operate? e.g. having to remember to turn off the R Mag before it will start
Andy

I can't think of a time when this would be a problem. If the prop is windmilling, it will restart automatically. If the prop is NOT windmilling, you have other problems, and the starter most likely wouldn't help. (Geared engines excepted)
Even though my starter switch is on the panel, I have it wired through the back side of the avionics switch so that it only works with the av sw in the "off" position.

In my 43+ years of flying, I've never had occasion to use the starter during flight.

[Ron Lee]

A month ago I flew a 6A that had lots of stuff on the stick. During flight I looked at my WAC book several times and guess where it tended to sit...on top of the flap switch. The pitch changed for unknown reason until I finally saw that I had about 10 degrees of flap.

Too much stuff on the stick for me.

On mine all I have is the PTT switch.

[RVbySDI]

Originally Posted by Mike S

This is one reason I mounted the flap switch on the panel, right next to the throttle where I can use my thumb on it, while still having my hand on the throttle.

Good job analyzing your situation, and figuring out the way back to the ground in one piece.

Well, interesting that you (and others) mention this. I DO have a flap switch mounted on the panel. It is a momentary up/momentary down switch mounted on the throttle bracket squarely between the throttle and mixture control (and is plainly marked FLAPS). I placed it THERE for the very reasons everyone has posted; so the operator could have his/her hand on the throttle while also easily flipping the flap switch up or down. I had originally installed this switch for the right side pilot should he/she need it. However, I might consider using it from the left seat also instead of the Infinity switch. Of course, that would not eliminate this error as long as the stick grip switch is still live.

Having said all this, I will admit I really like the flap switch on the stick. Other than this incident, it has worked very well to have it there. I think I just need to be cognizant of my actions at critical times to keep from making this same mistake again.

On another note that someone mentioned concerning the grip switch, that switch is a momentary (ON),OFF,ON switch on my Infinity. So it is momentary going down but to remove the flaps you only have to flip the switch up and it will keep raising the flaps until they are full up. One of the problems that I have always disliked about this setup is that the switch does not have a limiter on it. So when the flaps reach their full up position the switch is not disconnected. It is easy to forget about the switch if you are not thinking about it and leave it in the up position which will keep the flap motor moving. I assume if this state were to continue for a long period of time the flap motor might burn up. I have noticed on the ground the motor continues to hum away if this switch is left in the up position. Can anyone confirm whether this situation could cause potential damage to the flap motor?

[RVbySDI]

Originally Posted by RV7Ron

interesting, thanks for sharing. I also plan to have a similar setup with infinity grips...after this incident, would you change the layout of your buttons if you had it to do over again?

I am not sure yet if I will remove the flap switch from the stick. As I stated above, I do like having it on the stick. However, I am seriously going to look at changing out the (ON),OFF,ON configuration of that switch to (ON),OFF,(ON). I never have liked the fact that I can flip that switch up and it will stay on indefinitely until I manually flip it OFF.

[Louise Hose]

Paul has the Valkyrie set up with the trim and flap switches next to each other and I had a similar incident (albeit, I think it was while trying slow flight at altitude before attempting a landing). Took a bit of time to figure out what I did but no big deal. Since I'm used to flying another RV, I just kept flying the plane until I figured it out. I doubt that I'll do it again and, if I do, I'll know what to adjust immediately. So, I'm happy to have the trim and flap switches where they are and that will probably be the configuration of the -3. But, it's worth considering a different location.

This situation wasn't nearly as alarming as when I made my first landing in a friend's RV who hooked the autopilot to a little button on the front side of the grip. As I flared for my first landing, pulling back on the stick, the autopilot engaged. Fortunately, I figure out the problem immediately and disconnected it for an otherwise uneventful landing. I hope that button has been changed!!!!

There are all these little, unanticipated issues in flying a new plane. That's why I, personally, wouldn't considered doing a first flight (or early Phase 1) despite over 700 hours as PIC in RVs.