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  #1  
Old 08-18-2010, 11:25 PM
nomocom's Avatar
nomocom nomocom is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Caldwell ID
Posts: 275
Default Data Integrity - NOT! Still relying on paper.

I've left two airports in the past year, humbly and as quickly as I could manage. This was at least partly because I found it expeditious to rely on electronic records. In both cases, the Jep data indicated public airport, however once on site, I found it to be private. In the TX case, in spite of Jep and Foreflight reporting it public, it was clearly not public, as the local Sheriff introduced himself (that's a story in itself). At the Canadian strip, well it is public, in a limited sense, as described below. Interestingly, while Radium Hot Springs airport is listed as public, my friends picking me up found the roads to the airport clearly posted as private and arrived at the strip very much feeling like a trespassers.

So to get a bit more insight, I inquired of Jep customer service (abbreviated exchange)

How does Jeppesen go about determining if an airport is public or private? .........
Guthrie TX 6TE6 and a Canadian airport- Radium Hot Springs CBL6

And the reply...
___________________

Thank you for your question on CBL6 and 6TE6.

Airport CBL6, is correctly captured as "public" even though it is privately owned. You should understand the term "public" as "open to the public" or "for public use" and that is how Canadian pilots expect us to show this information. Jeppesen uses source documents (in this case, the Canadian Aerodrome Facility Directory) issued by the Aeronautical Authority of each country to determine if an airport is private or public use.

As a policy, Jeppesen does not capture private US airports unless the owner makes the request from us. Then they need to provide all the current information related to their airports. In the case of 6TE6, I found that it should be captured in the database as "private". It will be corrected in database cycle 1010, effective 23 Sep 10......

____________________________________

I will add here that I'm not headed out with only the Garmin 296. In both cases, I had other reference materials. In Canada, among other things, I had the VNC and a PDF reader with the current official- Canadian Airport Charts. Unfortunately, the file does not include all the airports, so to visit a small airport and cross check Jep data, you need to have the Canadian Flight Supplement handy (not available in PDF). Texas, I had Foreflight (running on the iPhone) and the G296 both saying public, I didn't take the time to check the official sources, both the sectional and the AFD would have given me a heads up that it was private.

Soap box warning!
Don't we need all "official" airport documents available in PDF format, so as we fly about with these GPS's we have an ability to check the the 3rd party data against the official data? While I'm happy to admit that Jep gets it right most of the time, it's still not the official published data and the regulatory burden is on the pilot to use the correct information, just as the Garmin startup script reminds us at each boot.

Am I the only one wondering a bit why I spend money on 3rd party data updates?

Comments, brilliant solutions??
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1990 RV-3 (now apart, upgrades in the works)
1959 C172 O-360
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  #2  
Old 08-18-2010, 11:37 PM
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DCat22 DCat22 is offline
 
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Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 531
Default

I would be interested in the full story around your landing at 6666 Ranch Airport.

That aside, I'm not sure...without checking the official sources of course. I'm currently hedging towards the MGL stuff in my future plane, which could show the raster VFR chart and thus the "pvt".

For the 4 letter airports I typically double-check myself out of habit, as so many are private. (But many will happily grant you PPR permission too.)
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2010, 09:22 AM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
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Smile The "official" record as filed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCat22 View Post
I would be interested in the full story around your landing at 6666 Ranch Airport.

That aside, I'm not sure...without checking the official sources of course. I'm currently hedging towards the MGL stuff in my future plane, which could show the raster VFR chart and thus the "pvt".

For the 4 letter airports I typically double-check myself out of habit, as so many are private. (But many will happily grant you PPR permission too.)
...with the FAA came be found on-line here - US airports only -

http://www.gcr1.com/5010WEB/airport.cfm?Site=6TE6

6TE6 is indeed private.

Just change the identifier at the end of the link above to get any airport...

Often a note is in the "Comments" tab for PPR (Prior Permission Required)
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  #4  
Old 08-19-2010, 09:26 AM
aerhed aerhed is offline
 
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Location: Big Sandy, WY
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Default

Quote:
That aside, I'm not sure...without checking the official sources of course. I'm currently hedging towards the MGL stuff in my future plane, which could show the raster VFR chart and thus the "pvt".
I've installed the sectionals on my MGL's and I really like having "sectional" info at hand. Big screens and zoom allows you to actually read it too.
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2010, 02:14 PM
breister breister is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,231
Default

I usually call any airport I've never been to before takeoff if I intend to land there. If I land on a whim (or a full bladder), I just look for the biggest runway around - those are rarely private and in any case more likely to have a restroom.

In an emergency, I don't give a rat's backside whether it is private.
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  #6  
Old 08-19-2010, 08:34 PM
Rick S. Rick S. is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 736
Default

Interesting,

I plan to places I know are public and have the services needed and I digress I do it off paper charts but, If I was "mislead" I would say something to Jep, but how could I be mislead?? I paid them $600 plus for my years subscription for my MX-20 and GNS 480..how could It be wrong? My next plane will have Robs Advanced Deck (AFS) system, I have the 3500 EFIS and Engine monitor right now and love it, at least his advanced system has charts and mapping for free (I think). No need for the MFD or the capability of the 480, but I admit I love the 480, now that I know how to use it
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  #7  
Old 08-19-2010, 09:15 PM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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Posts: 3,275
Default

Airnav shows 6TE6 as private, PPR.

My Air Chart book (paper!) shows it as Private.

Unknown what my GNS 430 shows.
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  #8  
Old 08-19-2010, 09:22 PM
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KatieB KatieB is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Belton, MO
Posts: 1,145
Default Paper OK too.

I like having a sectional on board. Had to use it 2 times in the last 2 years because the GPS quit far from home. If nothing else, looking for lakes, railroads, and small towns on the paper is something fun to do when the autopilot is on, the iPod's cranked up and I'm bored as **** at 8500 feet.

However, using 1/2 the baggage capacity of a PC-12 to haul around all of North America's paper IFR Jepp plates for my old job was another ridiculous story altogether... Electronic charts are awesome, but you'd think that with that hefty subscription rate, Jepp would get their act together! Thanks for the warning!
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Rebuilt most of SNF tornado victim RV-3B Tony Boy II (had to sell him, but he's flying!)
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Last edited by KatieB : 08-19-2010 at 09:27 PM.
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2010, 08:21 PM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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Posts: 3,275
Default

I just checked my Garmin 430W with recent Jeppesen database and 6TE6 is listed as Public.
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  #10  
Old 08-24-2010, 01:31 PM
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nomocom nomocom is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Caldwell ID
Posts: 275
Default Hmmm... official available through GCR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
The official record as filed with the FAA came be found on-line here - US airports only -

http://www.gcr1.com/5010WEB/airport.cfm?Site=6TE6

6TE6 is indeed private.

Just change the identifier at the end of the link above to get any airport...

Often a note is in the "Comments" tab for PPR (Prior Permission Required)
Gil,
I'm honestly not very excited about using data from what looks like another 3rd party provider- in this case GCR & Associates. This http://www.airportiq.com/Login.cfm seems like another offer to take our money when the official data should be, and likely is already available, no? Is there more to this story, as in the FAA farmed out official record keeping? I browsed around GCR's website and while it's clear they provide aviation consulting, I didn't see any reference to them being the official source for airport data.
I would think official would be this- https://airports-gis.faa.gov/airport...airportId=6te6. Found this resource by looking at the info provided under the front cover of an AFD.

Also...http://aeronav.faa.gov/index.asp?xml...v/applications
Downloadable digital products, including sectional TIF files that would go easily on an iPad. AFD info appears to be broken up and not easy to get a complete pdf file. That's to bad, as with the iPad, it would be very usable.
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1990 RV-3 (now apart, upgrades in the works)
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