Midair at Fisk last Wednesday...

[pierre smith]

...A few very lucky guys on their way in to KOSH last week.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...30X91552&key=1

Best,

[danielhv]

WOW. So my assumption is that the PA32R flew over the PA11 and the PA11's prop busted the tire on the 32's landing gear?! I think I'd be buying a lottery ticket if I were those guys!!!

[airguy]

Wow - very lucky indeed. From the description it sounds like a prop-tire contact?

[Steve]

I was riding sweep in a 4 ship half mile trail formation last year. We were at 90 kts and 1800 msl. Xpndrs on standby and all lights on. We just passed Ripon when 2 Tri-Pacers flying side-by-side coming from the southeast swung between #3 and myself. Fortunately their lights were on and I saw them coming. I'm thinking to myself, "Those guys don't see us and are going to jump in line." In reality I probably said, "WTF are those @$$%^&*s doing?" I dropped 20 deg flaps and slowed a little more to let the TPs move on ahead.

The Ripon arrival point can be a dangerous place. There are airplanes coming from 359 directions with their pilots intent on driving to N43deg50.29', W88deg50.68' as directed by their gps, some coupled to an autopilot. I'm knowing there are more than a few pilots not looking out the window.

It's the high speed, higher alt, less traffic approach for this RV from now on.

[Kyle Boatright]

Another issue with the arrival procedures (for both SnF and Osh) is that there are plenty of antiques which cannot fly 90 knots. I've e-mailed both management groups asking for a 70 mph arrival procedure for Cubs, Champs, Piets and the like. Those airplanes have a hard time meshing with the "normal" 90 knot arrival traffic. It wouldn't be a surprise if this was a factor in last week's "minor" midair.

Besides, one day I'll be taking the Champ (currently a project in my basement) to Oshkosh, and don't need anyone running over me while I'm blazing along at 85 mph...

[KatieB]

Yep, we had to check up for a gaggle of Champs last year close to the airport, not in single file, floating all over the freakin place like blimps.

This year, our line of 6 airplanes had to check up and slow uncomfortably as we approached the downwind for 27 because of an idiot Commanche driver ahead of us who kept slowing down despite ATC pleas -- the tower finally said "Speed UP" and he dropped his gear and slowed another 5 knots. Our nice 1/2 mile spacing got pretty tight toward the end. And we were in Light-Sport airplanes!!

[Kyle Boatright]

Originally Posted by KatieB

Yep, we had to check up for a gaggle of Champs last year close to the airport, not in single file, floating all over the freakin place like blimps.

Like Blimps?

I think I'm hurt by that comment.

;-)

[PCHunt]

Originally Posted by Steve

.........It's the high speed, higher alt, less traffic approach for this RV from now on.

I could be wrong, but I thought the OSH NOTAM stated that if an aircraft was capable of flying at 90 kt. then it had to use the low/slow arrival.

I stand by to be corrected.

Did anyone fly the fast arrival procedure in an RV?? If so, were you "chastized" by ATC?

[Bubblehead]

Interesting that the two pilots thought they were in different locations but were really in the same location. It could be just bad memory from having been in an incident.

According to a verbal statement taken from the pilot of the Piper PA-32R-301, ... Approximately two miles east of Ripon he heard a soft ?thud.?

According to a verbal statement taken from the pilot of the Piper PA-11, he was just east of FISK

Ripon to Fisk is 10 nm according to the chart.

[flyeyes]

Originally Posted by PCHunt

I could be wrong, but I thought the OSH NOTAM stated that if an aircraft was capable of flying at 90 kt. then it had to use the low/slow arrival.

I stand by to be corrected.

Did anyone fly the fast arrival procedure in an RV?? If so, were you "chastized" by ATC?

Sadly, you're correct.

I had missed that line in the NOTAM, and used the high arrival in my RV. I was not chastised by ATC, and felt that it was much safer and easier than the low pattern.

I have arrived in different aircraft, using the high pattern, the low pattern, and even the ultralight arrival (in the AirCam). By far the scariest is the low pattern, which is flying formation with 200 people you've never met in dissimilar aircraft.

Now I'm conflicted about the best arrival. Any RV can safely maintain 70 knots for a time, but many of us have temp issues with extended slow flight (like RIPON to FISK) in the summer. I might have to placard my airplane limiting speed below 95 knots to 5 minutes or less with OAT above 70 degrees.

Of course, that means I'll have to use the high pattern. Shucks.